558-559 Topsy-Turvy and The Mikado

[carax09]

I think there are a lot of directors (and great ones) who could be said to reduce their characters and the human condition to matters of almost pure emotion, but Leigh isn't one of them.

Well said, and I couldn't agree more.

[knives]

I didn't say he reduces the characters to pure emotion. The performances alone prevent that. Rather what I was trying to say was that he defines his characters by a single emotion and all of their actions and purpose within the story are based around that emotion. Blood pressure guy is sad, Broadbent is nervous, his wife angry. That's the sort of thing I was trying to say.

[MichaelB]

I didn't say he reduces the characters to pure emotion. The performances alone prevent that. Rather what I was trying to say was that he defines his characters by a single emotion and all of their actions and purpose within the story are based around that emotion. Blood pressure guy is sad, Broadbent is nervous, his wife angry. That's the sort of thing I was trying to say.

That description bears no resemblance to the film that I saw. None whatsoever.

Are you seriously arguing that Jim Broadbent's immensely layered and nuanced performance (easily one of the most complex and intricate portraits of a well-known historical figure that I can think of) was purely there to convey "nervousness"?

[knives]

No, as I have said Broadbent's (and everyone else's) amazing performance reduce that greatly. I have nothing but applause for the acting, but the way the camera characterizes them through a certain emphasis is what I have said. It really was just a small thing that bugged me only a little though.

[matrixschmatrix]

I've just watched this, and enjoyed it immensely. There were a few spots where I was worried it was going to exploit the period setting for sort of groan-worthy historical dramatic irony- the remark about how little Winston Churchill simply would not follow the rules, for instance- but the movie's overall interest was so relentlessly on the characters and on their professional lives that I stopped worrying about that kind of thing altogether. In a funny way, it reminded me of a Michael Mann movie- it's about people who know their work incredibly well, and do it professionally, and the actors seem to have researched their roles in such depth that they too know the things their characters would know. I enjoy any movie that takes its characters seriously enough to respect what they do, and this movie did that exceptionally well.

[john davies]

What O what O what is the duet sung by Sullivan and his Mistress not long before the playing of the Lost Chord? It isn't on the soundtrack, and is driving me crazy!

[PfR73]

What O what O what is the duet sung by Sullivan and his Mistress not long before the playing of the Lost Chord? It isn't on the soundtrack, and is driving me crazy!

In Sullivan's house, where he's playing the piano and she's singing, right before Gilbert shows Sullivan his new libretto about the magic potion?

In the commentary, Leigh says it is a song the real Fanny Ronalds (Sullivan's mistress) co-wrote. It is called Bacarole; she wrote the music, the words were written by one Edgar Barry.

[knives]

Finally got to The Mikado and terrible prologue aside it was a fairly fun movie. It's far less racist then I was expecting. Even the yellow face was severely reduced with little makeup and even eye shadow to express any Japanese-ness. It makes those Charlie Chan films seem all the worse. William Skall's use of the technicolour is really brilliant though. In a less ambitious year it would standout as a fairly experimental take on the technology. The colour really adds up the artifice bringing the film closer to the theater.

[britcom68]

For everyone’s benefit I will not detail in this post all of the Wexner Center discussion and QandA that Mike Leigh gave on the evening of Oct.16th, as it as already been detailed in my posts under the Peterloo thread. However, as Leigh seemed more effusive about Topsy-Turvy I felt it best to post this under its dedicated thread. (plus I have a soft spot for Topsy anyway and like bumping up this thread in hopes others will begin to enjoy the film too). If you enjoy his thoughts about this film, go check out the Peterloo posts for further film discussion with Leigh (he did touch on other films besides Peterloo but I thought it best not to post under so many different threads and clutter up the board).

When the discussion moderator asked Leigh about the making of Topsy-Turvy, Leigh stated, “I enthusiastically was onboard the unlikely experience.” Leigh admitted that it was nothing like his previous work and he is fine with that. He also admitted that he happened to like Gilbert and Sullivan anyway. Leigh said he had listened to the work of Gilbert and Sullivan on vinyl records for years before even deciding to read about them, much less filming this. He seemed to imply that he never anticipated filming this when he was casually reading about the librettist and composer in his downtime, and that the film rather fell in his lap. Leigh asked the audience if anyone had seen the first biopic of G&S, to which a few hands in the audience did go up tentatively. He nodded a bit and then said, that of the 1953 film, it was “so awful.” Leigh said that after completing Topsy it was less “awesome” to tackle Vera Drake. Leigh stated that after filming Topsy he felt confident to try to work in other period pieces. He went on to say that he enjoyed the creating of this film as he was already so familiar with their work, and that those in his crew and cast also seemed to enjoy filming. He said that filming real-life characters did not always pose a challenge for him or the actors, not as much as the discussion moderator and others seemed to suggest.

Leigh cited an example about Topsy where he choose to film from “his gut” rather than stick to the biographies. Leigh pointed out that there clearly was a well-documented case that much of the cast and crew of the original premiere of The Mikado did approach Gilbert and Sullivan to defend the titular song for the production and that they felt cutting that song was unfair to the actor, Mr. Temple. Leigh continued that in no sources did anyone say where that confrontation occurred, or who exactly said what verbatim, just that the encounter occurred. Leigh even noted that it was unclear if they went en masse together, or if they went in smaller groups or even individually, nor did any sources note who was the instigator, if any. He suggested that since there is no source detailing those specifics he went what made sense to him to present with the actors, and that it is right to criticize his choices but that it was nonetheless important to him to present this moment even if he could not rely upon verifiable sources that did go into the detailing of how that moment played out in real life. He said deciding to play that moment in a stairwell allowed for a cramped appearance that helped focus the attention without feeling too stagey.

Leigh shifted gears slightly and said that in the American-context, “character actors” do not necessarily mean the same thing as in the UK. Leigh said he would prefer to work with character actors as he does admire a performer who can act in more than one character, rather than just be notable and easily recognized for performing reliably in one type of character.

When asked by a member of the audience to detail what it was like working with Timothy Sprall in Turner, Topsy-Turvy and other pieces, Leigh noticeably seemed to hesitate in his answer. Leigh stated he found Tim to be “eccentric” and that he was “quite unusual” but that he felt he was still a great actor and gentleman. Unlike his other answers Leigh did not elaborate any further with examples of their filmmaking together or relate any further details. After Leigh cut short his answer there was a noticeable awkward pause in the air until the next audience member asked a new question and they proceeded.

Unfortunately for all concerned, Leigh was not asked nor did his discuss any of his thoughts about the film version of The Mikado, the Pirates of P. or even his film version of Turner.

And that, as they say, is that.

Here’s hoping that the Wexner Center will one day start live-streaming these discussions again, then I won’t have to furiously take down pages of notes on my legal pad.

[Michael Kerpan]

Thanks again!

[hearthesilence]

Leigh gave three Q&A's this weekend for the retrospective that opened at Lincoln Center - today was for Topsy-Turvy and I invited someone to come along who was a theater major that I thought was a fan of his work. Instead, he declined and proceeded to trash the film for being unforgivably sloppy. I asked for specifics and he claimed 1) the film gets Gilbert and Sullivan's personalities reversed and 2) he mentioned a line where one of them claims "I'm not a satirist" which he called flat out "stupid." I haven't seen the film in years and I'm not familiar with Gilbert and Sullivan beyond their music, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt. After seeing the film, the Q&A and doing some searches online, I'm completely bewildered by his criticism. The offensive line is never said, nor was there anything that I could see being mistaken for it. As for their reversed personalities, the moderator and Leigh discussed some anecdotes about them that doesn't suggest anything of the sort - for example, they talked about Gilbert's wife who apparently said in-print that following his untimely death, things were hard but not as hard as when he was still alive. Is it possible he's mistaking the film for another work on Gilbert and Sullivan?

EDIT: I just flat out asked him and he's claiming he meant a scene where they discuss whether The Mikado is lampooning the British - there's only one scene (or two as there's another one to calls back to it) that may be what he's talking about, but not in way that suggests he's interpreting them correctly either.

I should note the “new 2K restoration” used for the DCP looks like the same master used for the BD (though it now looks like the BD also used a bit of what I guess is edge enhancement or some kind of sharpening that’s noticeable around stuff like people’s heads and shoulders in certain shots). A shame because the master looks a little gristly and lacking in color and contrast. Even the opening credits looked very disappointing with the text itself looking less than ideal. The BFI’s new 4K restoration of Naked was GREAT as expected and the 35mm print of Vera Drake looked absolutely wonderful.

[hearthesilence]

I ended up answering my own question - turns out the scene I had in mind was indeed the culprit, and after further research I see how he came to a poor misinterpretation of it. With the scene in question, Gilbert scolds his actor's choice of using a Cockney accent, telling him "Rubbish! We're in Japan, not Stepney or Bow. Do it properly." The Mikado is supposed to be satirical of British society, Gilbert was clear about that in real life...but he also wanted the Japanese details to be as authentic as possible (or what he thought was a high level of authenticity) and did bring in local Japanese to advise on the production and to coach the actors, even thanking them in the program. Doing both is not mutually exclusive and it's a real stretch acknowledging the latter somehow denies the former.

[Roscoe]

There's also the moment where Gilbert tries to soothe Mr. Lely's ruffled feathers regarding his costuming by saying that The Mikado is not "grand opera in Milan but low burlesque on the banks of the Thames," only to reverse himself later when he says to D'Auban, responding to D'Auban's complaints about the changes to his choreography, that "this is not low burlesque but an entirely original Japanese opera."

[hearthesilence]

There's also the moment where Gilbert tries to soothe Mr. Lely's ruffled feathers regarding his costuming by saying that The Mikado is not "grand opera in Milan but low burlesque on the banks of the Thames," only to reverse himself later when he says to D'Auban, responding to D'Auban's complaints about the changes to his choreography, that "this is not low burlesque but an entirely original Japanese opera."

They actually talked about that in the Q&A - it's a reflection of how Gilbert's idea of their work continues to evolve as they're putting it together, and in this case, it's as if the work is rising up to growing ambitions. When we hear that reversal, it's when he's invited the Japanese locals to the theater to advise the cast and production. (IIRC Leigh said it may have been his favorite scene in the entire film.) Regarding the debate over the blatant yellowface aspects of The Mikado, I think it's a scene that effectively addresses that without betraying any sense of anachronism, specifically the confused and repressed horrified looks of the Japanese women when they see the cast members perform their bit for the first time.

[Roscoe]

in this case, it's as if the work is rising up to growing ambitions. When we hear that reversal, it's when he's invited the Japanese locals to the theater to advise the cast and production. (IIRC Leigh said it may have been his favorite scene in the entire film.)

I like the idea of growing ambitions a lot. I'd always seen it as being an example of the running series of reversals throughout the film, as when Gilbert says he won't go to the Japanese exhibition for all the tea in China, only to be next seen at the Japanese exhibition, the horrific description of the Mahdi's troops surrounding General Gordon contrasted with Gilbert surrounded by his own cast, and of course the last two scenes of Sullivan and Gilbert alone with the women in their lives for examples.