672-675 3 Films by Rossellini Starring Ingrid Bergman

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ellipsis7
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Re: 672-675 3 Films by Roberto Rossellini...

#51 Post by ellipsis7 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:07 pm

Superb set, just arrived, but will take some time to work through... Congrats to CC!...

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Yaanu
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Re: 672-675 3 Films by Roberto Rossellini...

#52 Post by Yaanu » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:21 pm

I wonder what's up with the box description. It implies that there are English- and Italian-language versions of all three films, but it's only the first two that do; Journey to Italy is English-only.

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knives
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Re: 672-675 3 Films by Roberto Rossellini...

#53 Post by knives » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:20 pm

That's not true. I have the box in hand and it only lists differing editions of the first two films (yet it is the last film that gets the 2nd disc).

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bringmesomechemicals
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Re: 672-675 3 Films by Roberto Rossellini...

#54 Post by bringmesomechemicals » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:37 pm

DVD Beaver lists the run times for Stromboli and Stromboli, terra di Dio as 106 and 100 minutes, respectively. The version of Stromboli on Hulu is listed as 94 minutes. Any ideas where this discrepancy comes from?

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Yaanu
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Re: 672-675 3 Films by Roberto Rossellini...

#55 Post by Yaanu » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:48 am

knives wrote:That's not true. I have the box in hand and it only lists differing editions of the first two films (yet it is the last film that gets the 2nd disc).
Does it? The packaging shots on CriterionCast imply otherwise. Maybe they have early editions and changed the packaging back. Or maybe we're both wrong in some way.
I dunno. Here's the packaging shots, by the way:
The box set
Europe '51
Stromboli
Journey to Italy

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knives
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Re: 672-675 3 Films by Roberto Rossellini...

#56 Post by knives » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:54 am

I know I'm not wrong. As I mentioned in the quoted piece I literally had the box in hand at the time. The second top picture as linked even shows that.

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CSM126
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Re: 672-675 3 Films by Roberto Rossellini...

#57 Post by CSM126 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:10 am

"English- and Italian-language versions of Stromboli and Europe 51, and of Journey to Italy" is slightly confusing but from a grammatical angle I think it separates Journey from the "English/Italian" distinction. The fact that the listing on the right side also lists the versions separately and doesn't show two versions of Journey also helps to clarify.

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Yaanu
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Re: 672-675 3 Films by Roberto Rossellini...

#58 Post by Yaanu » Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:51 pm

CSM126 wrote:"English- and Italian-language versions of Stromboli and Europe 51, and of Journey to Italy" is slightly confusing but from a grammatical angle I think it separates Journey from the "English/Italian" distinction. The fact that the listing on the right side also lists the versions separately and doesn't show two versions of Journey also helps to clarify.
Fair enough.
When the set was first announced, the description read something along the lines of "English- and Italian-language versions of Stromboli and Europe 51, and the English-language version of Journey to Italy". I still can't see why they would change it, save for having to shorten the entire description to fit on the back of the box.

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domino harvey
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Re: 672-675 3 Films by Roberto Rossellini...

#59 Post by domino harvey » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:42 pm

It's kinda weird how the forum's drifted away from talking much about the films Criterion releases so I'm personally making a conscious effort going forward to engage new (and new to me) Criterion releases in non-technical, non-speculative discussion on the board. Remember, we don't have to just wait for the lottery system of the Film Club to bring more film-based talk to the board! I've already seen Journey to Italy but the other two (and the short) are new to me, so I dived into the set with Stromboli and fell totally in love with the film (I took Tag Gallagher's advice and went for the English-language version).

That Stromboli captures what surely must be Ingrid Bergman at her most beautiful only helps undersell the tragedy of her character's hopeless internment within an impossible foreign world. A waste of beauty is as tragic as one of talent or skill, and while her character appears to only have her womanly wiles at her disposal, it's not enough to make a change, much less impact anything in a meaningful way. It's like trying to isolate and alter a single wave within a constantly churning ocean-- you can try and make it happen, but all you'll get in the end is wet. Bergman's character is so obsessed with leaving the displaced persons camp at the outset of the film that she doesn't realize until too late that the island itself is a holding station for those coming back or leaving, and those resigned to staying are inhospitable and inapproachable and unknowable. There's much beauty of an elemental nature to be found in the film, sure, but it's the stony implacability of immobile earth and maze-like housing structures surrounded by the vast expanse of water and plumes of volcanic ash filling the sky. This isn't the freedom of the natural world, it's the prison of the corporeal within it. When Bergman recoils so violently against the oddly hypnotic fishing session, it's as much from the metaphorical implementation of trapping what was once free for the good of the indifferent or malevolent islanders than for any concern for the animals (see also her earlier revulsion at the rabbit-attack).

I thought it was interesting how the film critic interviewed on the disc mentions in passing that some of the outrage at Rossellini's usurpation of Bergman possibly stemmed from the director's recontextualizing and subsequent monopolization of an asset. That summative worth of a Hollywood star, that they belong in a certain kind of film for a certain studio doing certain things, speaks to Bergman's function within the film as well and helps explain its initial lack of success with audiences and critics. Bergman gives us the beauty and glamour we want her operating within but leaves her hopelessly dusted and sooted and spume-stained in the bargain. This is a film that ends not with uplift of position but the weary peace that comes with the death of a dream. The epiphany of defeat and the subsequent humbled begging for mercy from a cruel and distant God as the only means of surviving the void of hope and aspiration is soul-deadening. The ambiguity of the ending is as much an act of mercy as any in cinema: I'm pretty sure that her next move capitulates in the direction RKO's ending explicitly took her, but the opportunity to reject the inevitable and hope for hope against all odds now only rests on the viewer's shoulders, not Bergman's.

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knives
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Re: 672-675 3 Films by Roberto Rossellini...

#60 Post by knives » Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:11 pm

Just watched The Inn of the Sixth Happiness which I think provides exactly what you mean by entrapment by the studio system (whatever other virtues are present). In a lot of ways that film goes out of its way to make her more homely, yet through the dignity of presence (and plot) there's that star's separation from the reality presented that in Stromboli Rossellini doesn't afford her. Like that really insane fight scene with her 'husband' she's involved with the character in a way that erases Bergman. I've never been fond of the idea of Rossellini as realist anything director, but in terms of the treatment of his characters that term finally applies with Bergman's pain being the best evidence of that.

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zedz
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Re: 672-675 3 Films by Roberto Rossellini...

#61 Post by zedz » Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:22 pm

Stromboli is probably my favourite of the Rossellini / Bergman films, and I think it makes very smart use of Bergman's star power, particularly that wonderful sense that she's stranded in the 'wrong' film, which is pretty much how her character feels. I think it's also testament to her strength and intelligence as an actor that she doesn't exploit that setting by making herself bigger than the film.

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Gregor Samsa
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Re: 672-675 3 Films by Roberto Rossellini...

#62 Post by Gregor Samsa » Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:51 am

BluRay.com gives a rave review.

rrenault
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Re: 672-675 3 Films by Roberto Rossellini...

#63 Post by rrenault » Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:52 pm

Is it too much to ask that the English versions of these films be made available on Hulu?

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krnash
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Re: 672-675 3 Films by Roberto Rossellini...

#64 Post by krnash » Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:56 pm

rrenault wrote:Is it too much to ask that the English versions of these films be made available on Hulu?
Yes? Just buy the box.

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swo17
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Re: 672-675 3 Films by Roberto Rossellini...

#65 Post by swo17 » Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:01 pm

Or you can rent it from ClassicFlix.

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knives
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Re: 672-675 3 Films by Roberto Rossellini...

#66 Post by knives » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:18 pm

Or request a copy with your local library. Lots of fun possibilities.

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movielocke
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Re: 672-675 3 Films by Roberto Rossellini...

#67 Post by movielocke » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:13 am

Stromboli, for me, was a film that was constantly interesting, but rarely cohesive. It was fascinating for the contrast it presents of the realism of island life and the expressionism of Bergman's perceptions of her experience. The wild oscillations between the bleak stares of island life and Bergman's 'these go to eleven' use of emotions is jarring, to say the least. But at the same time it sort of feels fitting? Is Bergman's loud and angry and constantly yelling character all that different from the stereotype of the old italian mother loud and yelling at her recalcitrant grown children (or husband) whilst whacking them with a wooden spoon? And while Bergman freaks out over what's taken from her the people freak out over what's given to them. The constant inversions quickly become symbolic, perhaps a little too much so. The film often felt like Godzilla King of Monsters, an Italian film cut together with hollywood shot footage.

I think the film is playing with the tropes of a hollywood woman's picture, and there certainly seem to be echoes of the genre, be it Gone with the Wind or Jezebel or Mr. Skeffington (first examples that come to mind), throughout the film, with the quotation of Gone with the Wind in the ending especially interesting. Unfortunately, I don't particularly like many/any of that particular genre, and so when the film veered back towards this direction I was continually put off by the symbolism and messaging of the melodramatics of her breakdown. I must say, it was a relief that Rossellini refrained from any stupidly big scenes of confrontation with the disapproving women of the town, I was constantly dreading some sort of stupid scene that made all of that more out-loud--that was perfectly handled. The symbolism and messaging is of course part and parcel with my favorite bit, the Tuna catch, but that sequence was just so breathtaking that it was the only moment the film fully won me over and I wasn't bored.

Not my cup of tea, but a densely crafted piece of art none-the-less, full of interesting ideas and approaches to the material.

Giulio
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Re: 672-675 3 Films by Roberto Rossellini...

#68 Post by Giulio » Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:29 am

The Bergman constantly yelling in Stromboli? What film are you talking about? Mistaking for an anna magnani movie.
It's so sad, italian stereotypes always win on american audiences.

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movielocke
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Re: 672-675 3 Films by Roberto Rossellini...

#69 Post by movielocke » Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:16 pm

Giulio wrote:The Bergman constantly yelling in Stromboli? What film are you talking about? Mistaking for an anna magnani movie.
Hah, point well taken. Consider it a tribute to the emotional intensity of Bergman's performance that I felt like I had been yelled at for two hours, or maybe I just sympathized a bit too much with the poor fellow she married.

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domino harvey
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Re: 672-675 3 Films by Roberto Rossellini...

#70 Post by domino harvey » Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:32 pm

You were against Bergman and for her husband?!

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knives
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Re: 672-675 3 Films by Roberto Rossellini...

#71 Post by knives » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:14 pm

Yeah, that seems unusual. The film is very intense and is built in such a way I perfectly sympathize with those that don't like it, but if anything I would think it would be easier to accuse Rossellini of making things too easy to sympathize with Bergman.

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movielocke
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Re: 672-675 3 Films by Roberto Rossellini...

#72 Post by movielocke » Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:27 am

domino harvey wrote:You were against Bergman and for her husband?!
She was crazy and hated him for being poor. He just wanted to go home and make a living.

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ellipsis7
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Re: 672-675 3 Films by Roberto Rossellini...

#73 Post by ellipsis7 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:36 am

It is worth picking up VULCANO the contemporaneous rival movie starring the spurned Anna Magnani (and directed by German born Hollywood veteran William Dieterle) set and filmed on the neighbouring island (in the same Aeolian archipelago) of Vulcano... It's in a decent edition (but unfortunately only with French subs) from Ripley's Home Video (RHV) Italy... Cinecitta Luce have also put out the docu THE WAR OF THE VOLCANOES (LA GUERRA DEI VULCANI) on a DVD which does include Eng subs...

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domino harvey
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Re: 672-675 3 Films by Roberto Rossellini...

#74 Post by domino harvey » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:32 am

movielocke wrote:
domino harvey wrote:You were against Bergman and for her husband?!
She was crazy and hated him for being poor. He just wanted to go home and make a living.
:shock: If this was a movie trailer, here's where the needle getting pulled off the record sound happens

cinemartin

Re: 672-675 3 Films by Roberto Rossellini...

#75 Post by cinemartin » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:33 am

Personally, I sympathize with both characters.

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