713-719 The Essential Jacques Demy

[Jakamarak]

What Dylan says about an English dub of Umbrellas is very interesting. I know there have been at least two attempts at a stage version of this film with English lyrics. The first time was at the Public Theater in NYC in the late 70s (starring, I believe, Dean Pitchford, better known as the Oscar-winning lyricist of "Fame" and the songs from Footloose). More recently, the Kneehigh Theatre in the U.K. mounted a production at the suggestion of Michel Legrand who loved their innovative stage production of Brief Encounter. The general reaction to both of these English language versions was that the property wasn't as charming when not performed in French.

[whaleallright]

I imagine that if the distributor hoped to duplicate the broad success of Cherbourg, they would have been foolish not to prepare a version with English dubbing--especially given Gene Kelly's participation. dubbing was a more popular practice in those days, in general--IIRC there were even English dubs of some of Godard's earlier films, which I would love to hear, if only for the yuks.

[domino harvey]

A Married Woman had a brown-market DVD out before Kino Lorber/MoC had their turn and it featured both audio tracks. I'm sure there are copies for dirt cheap out there if you wanted to indulge-- I long since gave my copy away, but I can't remember if I ever bothered to listen to the English track and am now slightly regretting its absence from my collection!

[whaleallright]

the dubs are definitely of historical interest, not least because in some cases many more folks would have seen a dubbed than a subtitled print. indeed English dubs are also a reminder that the intended audiences for these foreign films were not only the "art film" crowd but anyone hoping to see something a little racier than was then permitted in Hollywood films.

one wishes there were more such dubs available on home video--but I imagine that there are associated rights issues, not to mention sync issues that arise when a dub was made for a version of a film that differs even slightly from whatever version has been "restored."

[Kirkinson]

The English-dubbed version of A Married Woman was my first encounter with that film (on VHS!) and while I was initially irritated, it actually turned out to be a very valuable and illuminating experience. Aside from the language difference, the dub recreated Godard's sound design precisely, and it was wonderful to be able to experience the film the way a fluent French speaker would. You have to strain to try to hear the dialogue Godard often buries underneath music and sound effects, and his use of intertitles is much more striking when you're not already reading text throughout the movie.

Speaking of which, I'm curious as to why there isn't a new interview with Legrand on this. He's still alive & very active (though I know he's been busy touring for the last few years).

I'm extremely excited about this set, but yes, this is one extra it's sorely missing. I presume it proved impossible to arrange for some reason, as I can't imagine they wouldn't have tried to get one.

[fdm]

While absorbing the French discs, I recall hearing/reading that Young Girls Of Rochefort was actually shot twice, separate French and English versions, the English variant abandoned before release.

[J Wilson]

According to Bruce Kimmel here, the musical numbers in ROCHEFORT were shot twice, and the dialogue scenes simply re-dubbed. This version must have had some kind of release, as he also mentions owning a 16mm print of it.

[Fred Holywell]

Isn't there an alternate English language version of The Young Girls of Rochefort?

There might be a dub, but the film was exclusively shot in French with even Kelly speaking the language on set.

Does Gene Kelly perform his own voice in the dub? If he does it would be good to have. That said, I'm pleased to see one of my favourite stars Gene Kelly finally in the collection.

All prints I've seen of "Young Girls" have Kelly's dialogue and songs dubbed by someone else -- and a not terribly appropriate voice-match, either. Is there a version with Kelly's own voice? It seems silly to use a performer with such a distinctive sound to his vocalizing, and then dub him. While I have read that all of the performers, save Darrieux, were dubbed for the film, there must be an English-language print with Kelly's (and even Chakiris's) own voice.

BTW, saw the Janus logo on TCM's recent showing of "Lola". The print looked especially lovely. Soft and smoky, but not too. Good clear sound and white subs replacing Wellspring's yellow. Demy, Coutard, Anouk, Michel and, of course, Legrand's intoxicating score. Knowing Criterion, I'd expect the rest of the set to look as good.

[J Wilson]

All prints I've seen of "Young Girls" have Kelly's dialogue and songs dubbed by someone else -- and a not terribly appropriate voice-match, either. Is there a version with Kelly's own voice? It seems silly to use a performer with such a distinctive sound to his vocalizing, and then dub him. While I have read that all of the performers, save Darrieux, were dubbed for the film, there must be an English-language print with Kelly's (and even Chakiris's) own voice.

BTW, saw the Janus logo on TCM's recent showing of "Lola". The print looked especially lovely. Soft and smoky, but not too. Good clear sound and white subs replacing the Kino yellow. Demy, Coutard, Anouk, Michel and, of course, Legrand's intoxicating score. Knowing Criterion, I'd expect the rest of the set to look as good.

As far as I can tell, they dubbed their dialogue, but did not sing. On the recent Legrand CD box set of his Demy music, the credits for the English soundtrack of ROCHEFORT do not include either Kelly or Chakiris among the singers. The tracks have some of the dialogue included, and while it sounds like Kelly in the dialogue, it isn't him singing, although it's mostly not too bad a match. As far as the release of the English version of the film, Legrand says in the interview printed in the booklet that it wasn't released due to "an absurd, bureaucratic reason," which is interesting.

And on a side note, the "embarrassing name" of the Simon Dame character in the English version is, hilariously, Simon Guillotine.

[Jakamarak]

I've been dazzled by The Umbrellas of Cherbourg since I first saw it. I've had a mild obsession with it for a little over a decade now. When a friend and I made lists of the ten films we'd take with us if we were banished to solitude on a desert island forevermore, I included Umbrellas. Despite all the artifice, Demy is able to capture a purity of emotion that eludes most filmmakers. It's difficult to find anything like it -- even in the MGM musicals he liked paying tribute to or the Marcel Pagnol Marseilles trilogy which bares some plot similarities.

I had seen clips from The Young Girls of Rochefort in The World of Jacques Demy and it just seemed goofy to me. Taken out of context, the clips struck me as a little amateurish and the inclusion of Kelly and Chakiris was bizarre.

Since the restored Rochefort was playing at the Brooklyn Academy of Music this week, I checked it out and saw the entire film for the first time... I found myself grinning ear to ear from beginning to end. I was just as dazzled and just as moved by this film as I was by Umbrellas. Demy's films have such a unique tone. When it works, like in Umbrellas and in Rochefort, there's nothing like it. He takes crazy risks, like

SpoilerShow

having characters seemingly unaware that they are speaking in rhyme in Rochefort or having the lovers float down the street in Umbrellas.

Things that shouldn't work, and yet, rather than tank their respective film, they feel just right and elevate it even higher. And the way the resolution of Rochefort plays with expectation is just wonderful. Everyone in the audience knows what's going to happen, and Demy teases you with that. It's perfection.

I agree that the one oddity in Rochefort for me is Gene Kelly's French dub. It's difficult not to be conscious of it. That said, it seems there was an effort to find a voice that approximated Kelly's natural timbre. There were times during his spoken lines when I thought it could possibly have been Kelly. The singing however, is much more nasal and seemed higher than his normal range making it impossible to ever forget it's a dub.

I wonder when this was released if French audiences would have known Kelly's voice well or if they were more familiar with dubbed versions of his American films.

[Jack Phillips]

And on a side note, the "embarrassing name" of the Simon Dame character in the English version is, hilariously, Simon Guillotine.

I believe the embarrassment comes, not from the juxtaposition of first and last names, but from title and name: "Monsieur Dame" would sound like Mr. Woman or something of the sort. The English equivalent might be Mr. Misses.

Simon Guillotine is pretty funny, though.

[Fred Holywell]

I had seen clips from The Young Girls of Rochefort in The World of Jacques Demy and it just seemed goofy to me. Taken out of context, the clips struck me as a little amateurish and the inclusion of Kelly and Chakiris was bizarre.

Since the restored Rochefort was playing at the Brooklyn Academy of Music this week, I checked it out and saw the entire film for the first time... I found myself grinning ear to ear from beginning to end.

Yes, I had very much the same reaction! I enjoyed the whole film so much more than I ever thought I would based on the clips I'd previously seen.

I agree that the one oddity in Rochefort for me is Gene Kelly's French dub. It's difficult not to be conscious of it. That said, it seems there was an effort to find a voice that approximated Kelly's natural timbre. There were times during his spoken lines when I thought it could possibly have been Kelly. The singing however, is much more nasal and seemed higher than his normal range making it impossible to ever forget it's a dub.

For me, Kelly's French dub just takes me out of the movie a bit for those few minutes when he's singing (and even speaking). Among other things, the dubber sounds too young to my ears; like 20 years too young! But maybe that's just me.

I wonder when this was released if French audiences would have known Kelly's voice well or if they were more familiar with dubbed versions of his American films.

Going out on a bit of a limb here, but I believe that during the 'golden age' of the Hollywood musical, the thirties, forties and fifties, a performer's dialogue would be dubbed, but their songs were not. It wasn't until the late-fifties (with MGM's "Gigi", I believe) that both dialogue and songs were regularly dubbed by native speakers. So, at the time of "Young Girls", it seems likely that most French audiences would have been familiar with Kelly's singing voice.

[zedz]

The English dub of Rochefort, however, is well-known and the complete soundtrack to the English version was released on LP at the time and is also included on the recently released (and marvelous!) 11 CD box set of Michel Legrand's complete scores for Demy films (a box set that also includes alternates, covers, demos, concert versions, etc. but it doesn't include the alleged English version of Umbrellas beyond cover versions of certain songs recorded after the film's release).

I'm just reporting my astonishment that this 11 CD set is available from Amazon.fr right now for a mere 32E (once you deduct VAT). I don't know if that's the regular retail price, but it's an incredible bargain anyway.

[Dylan]

The English dub of Rochefort, however, is well-known and the complete soundtrack to the English version was released on LP at the time and is also included on the recently released (and marvelous!) 11 CD box set of Michel Legrand's complete scores for Demy films (a box set that also includes alternates, covers, demos, concert versions, etc. but it doesn't include the alleged English version of Umbrellas beyond cover versions of certain songs recorded after the film's release).

I'm just reporting my astonishment that this 11 CD set is available from Amazon.fr right now for a mere 32E (once you deduct VAT). I don't know if that's the regular retail price, but it's an incredible bargain anyway.

Yeah, that's a total steal. Not only some of the best film music ever, but in my opinion some of the best music of the last 50+ years. Legrand is one of the true greats - I just wish more contemporary filmmakers wanted him to score their movies.

[NABOB OF NOWHERE]

The English dub of Rochefort, however, is well-known and the complete soundtrack to the English version was released on LP at the time and is also included on the recently released (and marvelous!) 11 CD box set of Michel Legrand's complete scores for Demy films (a box set that also includes alternates, covers, demos, concert versions, etc. but it doesn't include the alleged English version of Umbrellas beyond cover versions of certain songs recorded after the film's release).

I'm just reporting my astonishment that this 11 CD set is available from Amazon.fr right now for a mere 32E (once you deduct VAT). I don't know if that's the regular retail price, but it's an incredible bargain anyway.

While you're at it you might as well mop up the 15CD Anthology set for less than 40 euros (without VAT)
Lots of jazz excursions and quirky collections i.e Hommage to Delon etc.
Comes in a dinky little box like the Demy set. It's real right enough - No Legrand Illusion .

[zedz]

It's real right enough - No Legrand Illusion .

I bet even you thought you weren't going to go there until you did.

[NABOB OF NOWHERE]

It's real right enough - No Legrand Illusion .

I bet even you thought you weren't going to go there until you did.

I tried to pull out but I was in a full-on fuselage rattling nosedive.

[Minkin]

It appears that the trailers have been dropped from the supplements.

Does Criterion hate trailers or is there some contractual asshole who keeps preventing them from showing up?

There's some other changes to the supplements, like the "making of Donkey Skin" now being for Young Girls (guess someone goofed that listing). Also, one of the two Q&A's might have been dropped, difficult to tell. Though in good news, they might have added quite a few interviews (unless they were all included in the original "two interviews" listing):

Archival interviews with Demy, composer Michel Legrand, and actors Jeanne Moreau, Catherine Deneuve, Jean Marais, and Jacques Perrin

[domino harvey]

Trailers aren't generally copyrighted, so their exclusion is actually extra puzzling

[giovannii84]

Trailers (where they exist) should be compulsory on all releases. It annoys me that they are not included in the eclipse sets. A movie with a trailer is still a simple edition.

[Red Screamer]

I have never seen the usefulness in trailers, with the exception of ones that are director-cut like Godard's. Otherwise, just watch the movie

[criterion10]

I have never seen the usefulness in trailers, with the exception of ones that are director-cut like Godard's. Otherwise, just watch the movie

You could also mention Kubrick, who cut his trailers in a very unique manner. Generally speaking, I think trailers are only of use to the general public, meaning non-cinephiles. I personally try never to watch a trailer before watching a movie, though it still would be nice to have them included on a release like this to view afterwards.

[domino harvey]

Well... after a film comes out, trailers are of most use to "cinephiles," because it helps to contextualize the film and how it was marketed, regardless of who edited it together

[criterion10]

Well... after a film comes out, trailers are of most use to "cinephiles," because it helps to contextualize the film and how it was marketed, regardless of who edited it together

...Right, which is why I wrote this in my initial comment:

I personally try never to watch a trailer before watching a movie, though it still would be nice to have them included on a release like this to view afterwards.

[teddyleevin]

What Dylan says about an English dub of Umbrellas is very interesting. I know there have been at least two attempts at a stage version of this film with English lyrics. The first time was at the Public Theater in NYC in the late 70s (starring, I believe, Dean Pitchford, better known as the Oscar-winning lyricist of "Fame" and the songs from Footloose). More recently, the Kneehigh Theatre in the U.K. mounted a production at the suggestion of Michel Legrand who loved their innovative stage production of Brief Encounter. The general reaction to both of these English language versions was that the property wasn't as charming when not performed in French.

Because of Legrand's involvement, it was impossible for me to license the score for performance by my NYC opera company (in French). I was offered, however, to rent the rights to Kneehigh's English production (which considerably reworked the structure and look). Very unfortunate.