98 L'avventura

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Belmondo
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:19 am
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#26 Post by Belmondo » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:31 pm

Good point about DVD availability affecting one's reputation. The most recent Antonioni DVD release in the U.S. was last years "The Passenger" from 1975.
I wonder if first time viewers were severely disappointed after hearing a plot summation to the effect that "Jack Nicholson plays a reporter who steals the identity of a dead man who turns out to be a gun runner". Sounds like action and intrigue; and Antonioni could not care less about either of those subjects. I cannot help but wonder if the misleading blurbs on DVD boxes and on rental sites are doing more harm than good. Some of the customer reviews on Netflix are along the lines of "this is the worst Jack Nicholson movie ever".
If that was their first experience with Antonioni, then I fear there is no chance they will try again with L'Avventura.
It's all a damn shame, and at the risk of going lowbrow; gazing at Monica Vitti for a couple of hours is all the adventure I need.

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aox
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#27 Post by aox » Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:49 am

I first saw this about 3 months ago, and I thought I hated it. I was angry b/c the mystery is never solved. But I kept thinking about it for some reason. I watched it again, then I watched it with Youngblood's commentary which instantly opened up the film for me. I realized that the mystery wasn't important and I wish the back of the DVD wasn't promoting the mystery. You could almost start the film an hour in and view it as a love story. The coming together of two people.

I ended up buying it over the weekend and I watched it for the fourth time and I can now say that this might be vying for a place in my top 10 of all time. Blow Up used to be my favorite Antonioni film, but not anymore.

I kind of hate that I needed secondary sources to open the film up for me. I am not sure that is a sign of an effective film. Essays and commentaries have to derive from something, so maybe the problem is with the viewer?

Still, an excellent film that is very rewarding... but a hard and thick film that takes time, IMO. Reminds me of James Joyce in terms of difficulty.

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skuhn8
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#28 Post by skuhn8 » Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:25 am

aox wrote:I first saw this about 3 months ago, and I thought I hated it. I was angry b/c the mystery is never solved. But I kept thinking about it for some reason. I watched it again, then I watched it with Youngblood's commentary which instantly opened up the film for me. I realized that the mystery wasn't important and I wish the back of the DVD wasn't promoting the mystery. You could almost start the film an hour in and view it as a love story. The coming together of two people.

I ended up buying it over the weekend and I watched it for the fourth time and I can now say that this might be vying for a place in my top 10 of all time. Blow Up used to be my favorite Antonioni film, but not anymore.

I kind of hate that I needed secondary sources to open the film up for me. I am not sure that is a sign of an effective film. Essays and commentaries have to derive from something, so maybe the problem is with the viewer?

Still, an excellent film that is very rewarding... but a hard and thick film that takes time, IMO. Reminds me of James Joyce in terms of difficulty.
I was perplexed and a little miffed when I first saw it as well...as was the audience when it premiered at Cannes (or was it Venice?)--they booed. This led to the famous petition defense by Truffaut and a number of other filmmakers and critics. It confounds and subverts your expectations as a viewer.

I don't know how to address the question of effective filmmaking, but I found that after I let it 'settle' for a while the story kept spinning and gaining momentum in my mind. It's quite haunting in its own way. It's definitely in my top 10 and easily my favorite Antonioni.

It confounds and subverts your expectations as a viewer. You're put in the position of a critical and often uncomfortable witness to this somewhat illicit romance developing in front of you. And there are times when you expect the missing girl to come out from behind the camera and interrupt what is unfolding. For me, particularly haunting on subsequent viewings is the scene viewed from between the blinds of the abandoned settlement. What a strange POV.

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aox
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#29 Post by aox » Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:44 am

skuhn8 wrote:I was perplexed and a little miffed when I first saw it as well...as was the audience when it premiered at Cannes (or was it Venice?)--they booed. This led to the famous petition defense by Truffaut and a number of other filmmakers and critics. It confounds and subverts your expectations as a viewer.

I don't know how to address the question of effective filmmaking, but I found that after I let it 'settle' for a while the story kept spinning and gaining momentum in my mind. It's quite haunting in its own way. It's definitely in my top 10 and easily my favorite Antonioni.

It confounds and subverts your expectations as a viewer. You're put in the position of a critical and often uncomfortable witness to this somewhat illicit romance developing in front of you. And there are times when you expect the missing girl to come out from behind the camera and interrupt what is unfolding. For me, particularly haunting on subsequent viewings is the scene viewed from between the blinds of the abandoned settlement. What a strange POV.
Yeah, I thought this would be a conventional mystery (though we got something better), and I spent the entire film trying to solve it. I wasn't necessarily absorbing the actual story (which is a love story). By the final scene, I felt like I had cheated my own experience by my insistent overanalyzing. The mystery was merely a platform, not the narrative.

ineedyoubad
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#30 Post by ineedyoubad » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:18 pm

Every time when i recommend this film to my friends or co-worker, i will always get same respond and question. "What happened to the girl?" :) And i always tell them, it`s not important what happened to the girl in the movie, it `s about guilt trip of her boyfriend and her girlfriend. Which that point, they will tell me it is not a good film because it don`t have good ending. Funny thing is i used to think that way, until i seen this movie about 10 years ago, and now it became one of my favorite film to this day. 8-)

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Ovader
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Re:

#31 Post by Ovader » Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:21 am

truefaux wrote:would you happen to know what's the title of the opening for l'avventura? i'm surprised to barely find mentions of it.
ellipsis7 wrote:'Titoli' and it runs 1' 59"....
A lot of people are curious about the title of the opening instrumental and it is not called Titoli since that is a different orchestral tune after listening online to samples off the various soundtracks. As far I can determine it has not been released besides on the actual film and no title of the composition can be found as of yet.

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ellipsis7
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#32 Post by ellipsis7 » Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:52 am

Yes, you're actually right, 'Titoli' means 'Title', but is in fact a different piece to the one accompanying the opening credits, now I've checked closely... On Fusco's music...
In L’Avventura (1960), the architectural design of the film, based more on the aesthetic beauty of the images, rather than on the refinement of words, is ignored by the music, which becomes sort of metaphysic language of the soul.
The sound-track follows the mood and the emotions of the characters, thanks to a sharp and anxious score, with rarefied and unusual timbres, based, mostly, on a concertino of wood and wind instruments, differently combined. There is also room for an unusual mandolin and guitar little orchestra, where jazz memories, pop, and from the Bolero by Ravel, can be recognized. Music, constantly going through rarefaction, becomes a lament and essence of the soul. Silver Ribbon award for the best music.
Last edited by ellipsis7 on Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Matt
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#33 Post by Matt » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:05 am

Nico Fidenco had a hit in Italy with a vocal version called "Trust Me." The music is credited to Giovanni Fusco.

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ellipsis7
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#34 Post by ellipsis7 » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:13 am

Fusco did the music for Antonioni's films from NU/Nettezza Urbana (1948) through to RED DESERT (1964), where his daughter Cecilia also ethereally sings... A biography...

joka
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Re: Re:

#35 Post by joka » Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:47 pm

As far I can determine it has not been released besides on the actual film and no title of the composition can be found as of yet.
The actual main title was released on an RCA Victor International LP in 1962 titled MUSIC AND SONGS FROM ITALIAN FILMS OF INTERNATIONAL FAME, running 1:58 and simply called "Theme".

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Ovader
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Re: Re:

#36 Post by Ovader » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:12 am

joka wrote:
As far I can determine it has not been released besides on the actual film and no title of the composition can be found as of yet.
The actual main title was released on an RCA Victor International LP in 1962 titled MUSIC AND SONGS FROM ITALIAN FILMS OF INTERNATIONAL FAME, running 1:58 and simply called "Theme".
I appreciate the correction so thanks! :)

rrenault
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#37 Post by rrenault » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:33 pm

I'm surprised criterion hasn't given this one the blu-ray upgrade, considering it's a seminal gateway foreign film.

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ellipsis7
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#38 Post by ellipsis7 » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:24 pm

rrenault wrote:I'm surprised criterion hasn't given this one the blu-ray upgrade, considering it's a seminal gateway foreign film.
Yes, superb as the DVDs are, it would be great to see L'AVVENTURA & L'ECLISSE upgraded to CC BR...

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SpiderBaby
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#39 Post by SpiderBaby » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:48 pm

It's safe to say though it should be the next Antonioni blu from Criterion.

rrenault
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#40 Post by rrenault » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:52 pm

What's the deal with La Notte? Last I heard, they were having trouble securing supplements and that's what was preventing them from releasing it.

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ellipsis7
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#41 Post by ellipsis7 » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:18 pm

It's quite a while since CC evinced interest in LA NOTTE. searching for suitable materials they said, trail run dry unless otherwise corrected?

onedimension
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#42 Post by onedimension » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:33 pm

I have my fingers crossed that they release La Notte w/ the other two in a blu-ray box set..

MoC has put out what looks to be a competent edition.

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ellipsis7
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#43 Post by ellipsis7 » Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:57 am

Yes, MoC is the current gold standard DVD for LA NOTTE, as is their IL GRIDO, and maybe BRs for these might emerge from MoC in due course, if say their upcoming dual format releases of LE AMICHE & LA SIGNORA SENZA CAMELIE perform well....

rrenault
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#44 Post by rrenault » Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:02 am

Yeah, except that with MOC DVDs you get the 4% Pal speed up, but that doesn't seem to occur on blu ray if I'm correct.

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hearthesilence
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#45 Post by hearthesilence » Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:57 am

onedimension wrote:I have my fingers crossed that they release La Notte w/ the other two in a blu-ray box set..

MoC has put out what looks to be a competent edition.
Yeeesh. MoC's DVD is definitely better than Fox/Lorber's, but that's still a fairly crappy looking DVD. I hope Criterion can find some better materials, but I guess the outlook is pretty bleak.

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domino harvey
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#46 Post by domino harvey » Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:24 pm

I assume the reason it hasn't come out on Blu is that the DVD release came out before they were doing hi-def transfers that were Blu-ray ready. Because Antonioni on Blu is the biggest "duh" upgrade in the collection

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swo17
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#47 Post by swo17 » Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:28 pm

I thought Criterion discovered that few of the hi-def transfers they were doing were Blu-ray ready.

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ellipsis7
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#48 Post by ellipsis7 » Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:12 pm

And CC's L'AVVENTURA is a 'stunning new digital transfer', not HD, and has considerable digital restoration work done on it.. To generate a new HD master suitable for BR would presumably entail a repeat of this digital restoration in HD...

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swo17
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#49 Post by swo17 » Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:20 pm

Though a new print played at Cannes in 2009 which, if they had access to that, could cut down on the restoration required for Blu-ray.

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dad1153
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#50 Post by dad1153 » Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:22 am

Saw a 35mm screening of "L'avventura" last night at Anthology Film Archives, part of Jonas Mekas' 'Boring Masterpieces' series. Between the dogs barking/NYC firetrucks/ambulance sirens outside, the douchebag in the back of the theater making an orchestra out of his many plastic bags and the other douchebag sitting right next to me that kept fidgeting his jacket/snoring loudly every five minutes or so for the last 45 minutes I could have been excused for not enjoying myself. Not so, Kevin Costner's ability to shut off distractions in "For Love of the Game" has nothing on the way I ignored these distractions and kept my focus squarely on the screen. Beats seeing it for the first time on decade-old Criterion DVD (patron-supplied foley notwithstanding). I thought I was ready to handle whatever "L'avventura" threw at me because I'd already seen Antonioni's "The Passenger," "Blow-Up" and "Red Desert" on DVD/Blu-ray. But I was thrown a curveball because, despite featuring a healthy dose of Antonioni's mise-en-scène, this wasn't at all what I expected.

Like "Psycho" we're given someone who appears to be the lead in Anna (Lea Massari sure looks the part of a leading lady) and, when she literally vanishes, Claudia and Sandro become the movie's unlikely co-leads. To see how gradually Antonioni transforms the search for Anna into the effect that Anna's absence has unleashed on her friend & boyfriend (repressed lust that would have likely emerged through an affair between Claudia and Sandro had Anna married Sandro... which may be the reason Anna was refusing Sandro's marriage proposals), and how little in the end Anna meant to them (Monica Vitti's reaction of self-aware horror at her realization of her own vapid set of values is pretty powerful, even if soon after she's rolling in bed with Gabriele Ferzetti) is to watch a master director in complete control of his actors. By the time a potential lead into Anna's whereabouts comes up (the house where foreign girls are sent) we're not surprised when this potential clue to the mystery is not only not followed by Claudia and Sandro but completely ignored. "L'avventura" never seemed as slow or boring to me as I expected. From the yacht pleasentries (which were funny, something I'm not used to from Antonioni) to the island desolation (rock exteriors as well as the emotional states of those climbing over them), from the search for Anna to the train trist between Sandro and Claudia, from the romance at the hotel to that memorable final shot (more below), there's seldom a moment when something/someone isn't being the center of attention. Like Whit Stillman with his smart-ass NYC socialte elite characters Antonioni cares about these well-off characters' meaningless trists because he knows (a) their lifestyles/playgrounds make for great cinematic eye-candy and (b) that's the way they were raised so they're not bad, just blind to the normal emotions most normal folks would feel when their best friend/girlfriend disappears. And for Antonioni those character flaws are the perfect human metaphors that he needs to make the framing of his antiques, rocks, old churches and statues (a lot of human art in the background where these characters walk about, something that both humanizes but also diminishes the humanity of those that stand in front of these works of art) the visual representations of what his characters can't say or communicate like most normal folks would.

Compared with David Locke wondering around Barcelona in "The Passenger," the lengthy green grass shots in "Blow-Up" or the technology-ravaged wasteland of "Red Desert" I never felt "L'avventura" lacked in places to go, people doing things (children in church, fishermen, the Italian navy, etc.) or things that Claudia needed to say to Sandro, and/or viceversa. At first I thought, since this was the start of Antonioni's great international acclaim period, that his 'style' (as seen in the above-listed movies of his I've seen) wasn't perfected yet. But now I realize this is a completely different kind of movie. It's got the human isolation and eye for composition he's known for (I've never seen rocks, abandoned islands, churches and human beings so gorgeously photographed since I last saw my "Last Year at Marienbad" Blu-ray) but Antonioni never loses sight of the cracks between what his characters are supposed to be feeling (which we as a viewing audience have been conditioned/trained to expect for them to behave a certain way) and what we're shown them saying/doing. The movie's final shot is a freaking masterstroke because (IMO) it represents that Monica has achieved the freedom to pursue love, with Sandro or someone else, because she's been hurt by Sandro's betrayal with the Anna-lookalike (visually her half of the screen is an open view to the sky, the world and its infinite potential there for her to take) while Sandro is forever condemned to seek and do the same mistakes he's done over and over again (his half of the screen is a wall, a self-made cage of guilt for what he last said/did to Anna). Still trying to sort if the 'wall' around Sandro is true affection for Anna, which make him pursue (a) Anna's best friend (for whom Anna was very fond of, as seen while the women were changing clothes in the boat) and (b) an attractive brunette that sort-of looked like Anna. It's an ending open for interpretation and that's mine, but it probably will change when I see "L'avventura" a few more times as soon as it's released on Blu-ray. I'm a patient man, I'll wait.

The moment I saw that final shot of "L'avventura" it hit me that it was 'borrowed' by writer/director Kenneth Johnson for a scene in "The Incredible Hulk" TV pilot from 1977 (4:00 min. into the clip) that struck me as being a perfect visual metaphor for Banner's troubled personal life that led him to experiment with Gamma radiation. If Kenneth was going to steal a shot for his American network TV comic book TV adaptation (one of my five favorite TV shows of all time) at least Johnson stole from the best. :) And I don't know if it was the experience of seeing it in a decently-attended theatrical screening but this was the most funny (laughing with the movie, not at it) Antonioni movie experience I've had, especially the first part before Anna disappears (every other close-up of James Addams' Corrado or whenever Lelio Luttazzi's Raimondo is henpecked by his wife had the theater laughing). I'm not sure the same scenes would have made me laugh had I watched them alone at home in front of my 47" flat screen.

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