Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

Discuss releases by Criterion and the films on them. Threads may contain spoilers!
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#301 Post by domino harvey » Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:58 pm

Smiles is the exact same disc with new menus

The Devil's Eye

New extras for Faro Dokument 79 are Bergman shorts Karin's Face and Daniel

Only extra for the Touch is a 55 making of, also on the BFI. Only includes the Swedish/English audio option

Saraband does not carry over the 43 minute making of from the Sony and Tartan DVDs

Robespierre
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:31 pm

Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#302 Post by Robespierre » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:33 pm

Yikes, the transfer for Smiles of a summer night has not aged well. I wonder why they didn't utilize the new restoration?

Calvin
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:12 am

Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#303 Post by Calvin » Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:23 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:58 pm
Saraband does not carry over the 43 minute making of from the Sony and Tartan DVDs
I'm guessing that they realised they couldn't fit it on the same disc as Saraband while it was sharing with Scenes from a Marriage, but it's a bit annoying. Still, I think this makes Saraband the only DVD that I'll be keeping - and the Artificial Eye Blu-Ray set for It Rains On Our Love.

Rupert Pupkin
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:34 am

Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#304 Post by Rupert Pupkin » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:54 am

Calvin wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:23 pm
domino harvey wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:58 pm
Saraband does not carry over the 43 minute making of from the Sony and Tartan DVDs
I'm guessing that they realised they couldn't fit it on the same disc as Saraband while it was sharing with Scenes from a Marriage, but it's a bit annoying. Still, I think this makes Saraband the only DVD that I'll be keeping - and the Artificial Eye Blu-Ray set for It Rains On Our Love.
yes too bad. I was waiting for the blu-ray capture on DVDBeaver. Looks great, but too bad for the bonus.
Does that implies that we will have perhaps a surprise to discover a different scan/encoding and above all color grading than the "Scenes From A Marriage" Criterion blu-ray "stand-alone" release which has been just released (and looks okay to me) ? :?

nolanoe
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:25 am

Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#305 Post by nolanoe » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:36 am

I'm curious what this post right here will elicit, but eh... here we go...

I've seen the majority of the here presented films about 7 years ago during a full 35mm retrospective, at which I tried to make sure to watch as many films as possible - part due to their unavailability at the time in good format, part to my own love for Ingmar. Not to exaggerate - I was looking forward to this 1080p collection a lot. And, umh... Yeah...

I've always been fascinated by Bergman's usage of color. Those 13 years where he really indulged in the possibilities color allow are maybe my favorite of his career, also because they are so underrated. So I watched as many as possible when I had the chance to and I am sad to say that I think Criterion sort of missed the mark here.

Mostly, these films look EXTREMELY muted in direct comparison to what I saw on the big screen - all of them. The earlier version of Cries and Whispers is pretty much a 1/1 representation of what the film looks like on 35mm, while the newer 2k scan is SEVERELY darkened to the point of deconstructing the intended effect of the colors. Same with Winter Light. Passion of Anna seems mostly right, whereas The Touch I remember as FAR more vibrant, but I'd have to see the opening shot to be sure, as the color of the flowers really jumped out. Serpent's Egg and Marionettes looks on point. Also, I love Serpent's Egg, just to add fire to that one.

Why Criterion did this is beyond me, really. Maybe to create a more "authentic" feel? Yet that completely contradicts what these films actually look like on the big screen.

What's more interesting is that this seems a trend now with what we see regarding highly anticipated Hi-Def transfers - look at the whole debate surrounding Suspiria, with the 4k transferred BD being strikingly darkened beyond the point of its natural 35mm look. I did read up on this extensively and while the person in charge of the restoration went further-than-beyond to assure this is what the film would look like in a cinema, the darkness is boosted in a way where details caught by the camera in prior versions have now become invisible in a sea of blackness. It's similar with the Bergmans.

So I'm kind of left pondering whether or not to get this.

mteller
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:23 pm

Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#306 Post by mteller » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:09 am

What they looked like on the big screen 7 years ago is not necessarily what they were originally intended to look like on the big screen.

User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#307 Post by MichaelB » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:10 am

Indeed. Were they new prints struck for the occasion, or vintage ones whose colours may have shifted over time?

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#308 Post by domino harvey » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:05 pm

While we're waiting for the rest of the color films to be covered, here's Waiting Women (no new extras on it or Brink of Life)

mteller
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:23 pm

Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#309 Post by mteller » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:21 am

Brink of Life

One of my favorites of the lesser-known Bergmans. The apparent cropping is a slight concern, but the contrast looks like an improvement to me.

Only SFAM and F&A (and the Making Of) remain to be reviewed. I'd be surprised if SFAM differs from the recent standalone release.

User avatar
Lachino
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:25 pm
Location: Aarhus, Denmark

Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#310 Post by Lachino » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:24 am

It also looks a bit softer, doesn't it?

Though it may mean nothing in practice since Gary doesn't mention it.

User avatar
hearthesilence
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 am
Location: NYC

Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#311 Post by hearthesilence » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:50 am

Just to chime in regarding how these look in a theater, I caught a few DCP screenings of the new restorations at Film Forum last year, and it really did feel like watching a DCP. Clearly taken from a film source, but everything about felt like digital, for better and I guess for worse - very clean (not de-grained, I don't mean that), rock solid stability, very uniform, and picture was especially crisp in a way that I wouldn't expect from a film print. But I'm tempted to say they looked a tiny bit dim, and while the colors looked right, there was something a bit cold about them (at least that's how it felt - words really fail me here because I don't mean the color palette was cool).

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#312 Post by domino harvey » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:54 am

the Making of Fanny and Alexander is the same Blu-ray Criterion already released with new menus


User avatar
tenia
Ask Me About My Bassoon
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am

Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#314 Post by tenia » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:38 pm

Just out of curiosity, considering the encode issues Criterion had (?), I'm quite interested in seeing the impact of the drastic difference in AVB for the theatrical edit.

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#315 Post by domino harvey » Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:49 pm

And here is the final piece of the puzzle, Fanny and Alexander-- Gary sez there are indeed new colors in the Christmas section, but it doesn't look drastic like the other shifts (I can't even really tell...)

User avatar
HitchcockLang
Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 1:43 pm

Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#316 Post by HitchcockLang » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:11 am

Currently half price (149.99) on Amazon for those of you who are worried about availability or spider-wrapping at Barnes & Noble.

GoodOldNeon
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:58 am

Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#317 Post by GoodOldNeon » Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:22 am

I had quick look at the set at my local film store today, and it's absolutely massive. I didn't get the exact measurements but I'd say it was roughly 1.75 to 2 regular Blu-ray cases high and maybe 1.5 cases deep. Some reorganising of shelves is definitely in order so that I can even fit this thing in my collection.

User avatar
ochsfan
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:10 pm

Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#318 Post by ochsfan » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:22 pm

Just picked up a copy of the box at my local Barnes and Noble (with the sale price and my membership the cost came to $135.00, which strikes me as a remarkable bargain for such a large number of great films). Also pleased to see that it looks like most of the supplements in the original issues were retained. Looking forward to settling down over the holiday and watching (or re-watching) as many of these as I can fit in.

User avatar
jedgeco
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:28 am

Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#319 Post by jedgeco » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:47 pm

Anybody been able to pick one up at a B&N store? I went to the one location in my area that listed it as in stock, but when I got there the woman at the desk said they received 3 copies and sold them first thing this morning.

ozufils
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:30 am

Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#320 Post by ozufils » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:49 pm

I got mine at the store in downtown NYC.

I am one very happy kid.

User avatar
Rsdio
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 11:42 am
Location: UK

Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#321 Post by Rsdio » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:07 pm

Mine's shipped from Amazon apparently. Really looking forward to finding out if they managed to rustle up an extra strong Jiffy bag to see it safely across the Atlantic. I've pretty much got the whole live chat conversation with their help team mapped out in my head already.

User avatar
J Wilson
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:26 am
Contact:

Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#322 Post by J Wilson » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:29 pm

jedgeco wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:47 pm
Anybody been able to pick one up at a B&N store? I went to the one location in my area that listed it as in stock, but when I got there the woman at the desk said they received 3 copies and sold them first thing this morning.
I think their inventory online lags behind the actual in store stock. My store looked to get about ten or so sets, which they had behind the register. At least two other people were there the same time I was to pick one up.

User avatar
greggster59
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:37 pm

Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#323 Post by greggster59 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:56 pm

I came home to find my set waiting.
This, along with some reading on Bergman, is going to be my main winter project.

I can't decide if I should watch the films chronologically or the way they are presented in the collection.
Any thoughts on this?

User avatar
HitchcockLang
Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 1:43 pm

Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#324 Post by HitchcockLang » Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:15 pm

greggster59 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:56 pm
I came home to find my set waiting.
This, along with some reading on Bergman, is going to be my main winter project.

I can't decide if I should watch the films chronologically or the way they are presented in the collection.
Any thoughts on this?
In my opinion, I'd say it depends on if you intend to watch the entire box through more than once (not just rewatching the films here and there but going through every film in the box until you've seen them all without stopping to repeat). If yes, then I think it might be interesting to see what kind of thematic considerations went into Criterion's curation of a the faux festival.

But if you think you'll only go through the whole box once, I think watching a single artist grow and evolve across his oeuvre chronologically is far more interesting. That's how I intend to watch it the first time. Just my two cents.

User avatar
greggster59
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:37 pm

Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#325 Post by greggster59 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:53 pm

Your two cents is worth a lot.
I'm no stranger to Bergman. That said, I haven't seen at least half of these.

I'm going to take your advice and watch them the way they are presented and go through them in order the next time.

Thanks.

Post Reply