Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

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barnyard078
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2201 Post by barnyard078 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:29 am

According to KLI on Bluray.com, it is a "Late 2010's HD Transfer." They also performed additional DRS and dirt removal. KLI also said, "The master was viewed by Thelma Schoonmaker and she was very happy with it."
KLI concluded by saying, "We tried to do a new 4K master, but the studio would only green light a full restorations, which would cost high six figures to low seven."

 

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tenia
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2202 Post by tenia » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:32 am

Extremely surprised to read it would cost that much to do a 4K restoration of a 1997 movie. AFAIK, european 4K restorations rather cost $250k for 35mm movies (and Kundun isn't 3 hours long either). I've only read about the kind of figures discussed here (high 6 - low 7) for extremely prestigious restorations (lavish Technicolor like The Red Shoes or 65mm epics like Lawrence of Arabia or Ben Hur), but not "standard" 35mm movies.

Maybe it's that much more expensive in the US, but maybe a Scorsese movie could be restored at an european lab like L'immagine Ritrovata, since they're heavily involved in the Film Foundation restorations.

I guess the 2010 (early rather than late, see further) HD master is the same than the one released in Germany and Australia (then elsewhere) in May and June 2010. It looks indeed very much decent (which also suggests the materials are in good shape), though it's starting to look dated. The German release of it however is plagued by extreme DNR and EE.

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JamesF
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2203 Post by JamesF » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:52 pm

I assume that Scorsese and Roger Deakins’ involvement and time would require some major financial renumeration beyond the usual costs for a 4K restoration.

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FrauBlucher
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2204 Post by FrauBlucher » Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:02 pm


onedimension
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2205 Post by onedimension » Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:41 pm

A bunch of the new releases: Alphaville, the Melvilles and Becker - look to my taste much much too bright, changing their character significantly..

onedimension
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2206 Post by onedimension » Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:42 pm

Hate to look a gift horse in the mouth, since none have been on blu ray at all, but it’s a little disappointing, especially since they were poached from Criterion - could have been home runs

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TwoTecs
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2207 Post by TwoTecs » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:53 am

onedimension wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:41 pm
A bunch of the new releases: Alphaville, the Melvilles and Becker - look to my taste much much too bright, changing their character significantly..
Looking at the comparisons on beaver, the brightness seems to be about the same for those discs. The Criterion DVDs actually have worse contrast (ofc) and there is no reason to think they were an accurate representation of
the films' look anyway. Even if there is a bump in brightness, that would be expected with the expanded dynamic range of blu-ray.

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Bumstead
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2208 Post by Bumstead » Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:29 pm

I've got the new Kino Melvilles. The image fidelity is accurate (exteriors have brighter whites, interiors have darker whites). And unlike the Criterions DVDs, there doesn't seem to be any artificial luma suppression. Gorgeous stuff.

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FrauBlucher
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2209 Post by FrauBlucher » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:26 pm

Not sure why you're comparing old DVDs to blu-ray's that have come from 4k restorations. I'm sure if CC had access to releasing these they would be just as good.

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domino harvey
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2210 Post by domino harvey » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:29 pm

Thank you! The real point of comparison for these is the Blu-rays StudioCanal already released and yet seemingly everyone keeps forgetting existed?

nitin
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2211 Post by nitin » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:16 pm

Props to Kino for fixing the gamma issue with SC’s release of Port fo Shadows too.

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domino harvey
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2212 Post by domino harvey » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:40 am

What is going on with Easy Living? Why does DVDBeaver say it's from the same source when they look nothing alike, and am I crazy for thinking it looks worse than the DVD? What am I missing, because at least the DVDs not faded and blurry like Ray Milland's eyesight after a few too many

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Adam Grikepelis
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2213 Post by Adam Grikepelis » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:36 am

I'm surprised anyone still relies on their screen caps for much of anything these days. I know I've been guilty of questioning releases based on DVD Beaver too, but whatever process is used to get the stills from disc to website is severely flawed. Even the problems aren't consistent.

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jsteffe
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2214 Post by jsteffe » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:55 am

domino harvey wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:40 am
What is going on with Easy Living? Why does DVDBeaver say it's from the same source when they look nothing alike, and am I crazy for thinking it looks worse than the DVD? What am I missing, because at least the DVDs not faded and blurry like Ray Milland's eyesight after a few too many
I see what you mean. The cropping looks basically identical. I wonder whether it is the same older master, but for the DVD they boosted the contrast and possibly added sharpening. That is, assuming the captures are accurate.

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Rayon Vert
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2215 Post by Rayon Vert » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:19 am

I had the same reaction as Domino. I ended up buying it yesterday anyway based on Gary's comments but I'll see what it looks like on the screen.

nitin
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2216 Post by nitin » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:27 am

I will wait for other screenshots because dvdbeaver has proven to be unreliable before, but if this is one of the accurate ones, the DVD does look better in those shots even if it has been boosted/sharpened.

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domino harvey
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2217 Post by domino harvey » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:32 am

Also, just noticing that the KL caps seem to indicate the Blu-ray image is squished fatter as well. It's becoming one of those Spot the Differences puzzles from Highlights for Kids!

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jsteffe
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2218 Post by jsteffe » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:10 pm

nitin, I agree with you on the superior contrast of the DVD. The faces are too bright and flat in the Blu-ray, which means there isn't enough modeling and the eyes don't stand out the way they should.

domino, I hadn't picked up on that difference, but it taking that into account with everything else I am beginning to doubt they are the same master.

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Gregory
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2219 Post by Gregory » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:57 pm

Rayon Vert wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:19 am
I had the same reaction as Domino. I ended up buying it yesterday anyway based on Gary's comments but I'll see what it looks like on the screen.
I can never buy anything based on Gary's comments because his comments are so similar in every review I read. And seemingly any new disc is an improvement over any older release.

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Rayon Vert
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2220 Post by Rayon Vert » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:13 pm

Good to know. Anyhow this purchase will be a test of that!

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Kino Insider
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2221 Post by Kino Insider » Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:08 pm

tenia wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:32 am
Extremely surprised to read it would cost that much to do a 4K restoration of a 1997 movie. AFAIK, european 4K restorations rather cost $250k for 35mm movies (and Kundun isn't 3 hours long either). I've only read about the kind of figures discussed here (high 6 - low 7) for extremely prestigious restorations (lavish Technicolor like The Red Shoes or 65mm epics like Lawrence of Arabia or Ben Hur), but not "standard" 35mm movies.

Maybe it's that much more expensive in the US, but maybe a Scorsese movie could be restored at an european lab like L'immagine Ritrovata, since they're heavily involved in the Film Foundation restorations.

I guess the 2010 (early rather than late, see further) HD master is the same than the one released in Germany and Australia (then elsewhere) in May and June 2010. It looks indeed very much decent (which also suggests the materials are in good shape), though it's starting to look dated. The German release of it however is plagued by extreme DNR and EE.
We reached out to them and asked to allow us to scan the camera negative in 4K and have the DP oversee the new transfer and color grading. This would've cost us low five figures, we wouldn't be around for too long even if we spent $20,000 to $25,000 on our masters, not to mention anything even close to the numbers you're posting above.

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Kino Insider
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2222 Post by Kino Insider » Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:00 pm

11/5 Naked Alibi (1954) | It Always Rains on Sunday (1947) | Seven Days to Noon (1950) | The Man Between (1953) | Woman in Hiding (1950) 11/12 The Gun Runners (1958) | Madigan (1968) | Charley Varrick (1973) | Thunderbolt and Lightfoot (1974) | Return to Macon County (1975) | Street People (1976) | Winter Kills (1979) 11/19 Un Flic (1972) | Diabolically Yours (1967) | Farewell, Friend (1968) | Someone Behind the Door (1971) 11/26 The Holly and the Ivy (1952) | Christmas in July (1940) | The Pink Panther Cartoons Vol. 6 (1978-80)

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FrauBlucher
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2223 Post by FrauBlucher » Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:31 pm

GetHarryPalmer wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:43 pm
FrauBlucher wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:20 pm
Kino Insider wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:43 pm


The label always gets the credit and/or the blame. I guess we could list the company responsible for the restoration, but no one else does. It's always a brand new...

If you check the first page, we list the ones we did and didn't take credit for someone else's restoration. For some of the Paramount titles, we included the following language: 4K scan by Paramount (additional DRS/color correction by KL).
That's not necessarily true. Criterion on their booklets list the houses that do the restorations, as do some of the UK Boutiques. That's why everyone, at least on this forum, knows that Eclair's work is a shit show. I guess the other forums don't pay attention or care about that aspect of the restorations.
Who cares about which house they use, the label/studio oversees and approves the transfer and decide how much works needs to done and how much they're willing to spend. Most U.S. labels work with the same group of mastering houses, Fotokem, Duplitech, Deluxe and so on.
Kino Insider wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:08 pm
tenia wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:32 am
Extremely surprised to read it would cost that much to do a 4K restoration of a 1997 movie. AFAIK, european 4K restorations rather cost $250k for 35mm movies (and Kundun isn't 3 hours long either). I've only read about the kind of figures discussed here (high 6 - low 7) for extremely prestigious restorations (lavish Technicolor like The Red Shoes or 65mm epics like Lawrence of Arabia or Ben Hur), but not "standard" 35mm movies.

Maybe it's that much more expensive in the US, but maybe a Scorsese movie could be restored at an european lab like L'immagine Ritrovata, since they're heavily involved in the Film Foundation restorations.

I guess the 2010 (early rather than late, see further) HD master is the same than the one released in Germany and Australia (then elsewhere) in May and June 2010. It looks indeed very much decent (which also suggests the materials are in good shape), though it's starting to look dated. The German release of it however is plagued by extreme DNR and EE.
We reached out to them and asked to allow us to scan the camera negative in 4K and have the DP oversee the new transfer and color grading. This would've cost us low five figures, we wouldn't be around for too long even if we spent $20,000 to $25,000 on our masters, not to mention anything even close to the numbers you're posting above.
Mr Palmer, see there are folks that care about this stuff.

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Adam Grikepelis
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2224 Post by Adam Grikepelis » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:43 pm

Happy to see Un Flic coming amongst the Melville’s. Not his greatest film of course, but still an enjoyable & somewhat more modern feeling film to end his career on.

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tenia
Ask Me About My Bassoon
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2225 Post by tenia » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:21 am

Kino Insider wrote:
tenia wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:32 am
Extremely surprised to read it would cost that much to do a 4K restoration of a 1997 movie. AFAIK, european 4K restorations rather cost $250k for 35mm movies (and Kundun isn't 3 hours long either). I've only read about the kind of figures discussed here (high 6 - low 7) for extremely prestigious restorations (lavish Technicolor like The Red Shoes or 65mm epics like Lawrence of Arabia or Ben Hur), but not "standard" 35mm movies.

Maybe it's that much more expensive in the US, but maybe a Scorsese movie could be restored at an european lab like L'immagine Ritrovata, since they're heavily involved in the Film Foundation restorations.

I guess the 2010 (early rather than late, see further) HD master is the same than the one released in Germany and Australia (then elsewhere) in May and June 2010. It looks indeed very much decent (which also suggests the materials are in good shape), though it's starting to look dated. The German release of it however is plagued by extreme DNR and EE.
We reached out to them and asked to allow us to scan the camera negative in 4K and have the DP oversee the new transfer and color grading. This would've cost us low five figures, we wouldn't be around for too long even if we spent $20,000 to $25,000 on our masters, not to mention anything even close to the numbers you're posting above.
Low five figures ? That's far from the high six - low seven mentioned originally. I understand your budget rationale though, especially considering how many titles you're releasing. I'd have however guessed Kundun to be a big enough title to warrant that.

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