25 Vampyr

[godardslave]

Wait longer, take your time, and restore it to Criterion levels.

In the long run it will pay off economically and artistically.

[peerpee]

Which would mean scrapping the work we've done so far -- scrapping the new HD transfer of Koerber's 1999 film restoration, and trying to get (massive) funding for a new film restoration based on Koerber's 1999 work, ie. you're looking at a BluRay release in 2011 at the earliest.

[godardslave]

Which would mean scrapping the work we've done so far -- scrapping the new HD transfer of Koerber's 1999 film restoration, and trying to get (massive) funding for a new film restoration based on Koerber's 1999 work, ie. you're looking at a BluRay release in 2011 at the earliest.

Ouch, i didnt realize it was that tough.

Yeah thats a pretty big investment and a tough choice. And a good example of the dilemmas facing companies who want to release classic films in top quality (especially silents) on dvd.

[akaten]

Here's an off the wall idea, release it in the next few months but have it come with a disclaimer to the effect of:

"All proceeds will be used to fund a full HD restoration of Vampyr at a later date."

[MichaelB]

Which would mean scrapping the work we've done so far -- scrapping the new HD transfer of Koerber's 1999 film restoration, and trying to get (massive) funding for a new film restoration based on Koerber's 1999 work, ie. you're looking at a BluRay release in 2011 at the earliest.

And presumably there's a time limit on how long you've got the DVD rights?

Second Run was faced with a similar dilemma over Marketa Lazarová, delaying it for two years after signing the contract in the hope that someone with deep pockets would step up to the plate to fund an HD restoration off the original negative - but when it was clear that this wasn't going to happen any time soon, they basically had the choice of writing off their investment or making the best possible job of the existing materials.

Personally, I'm delighted they decided to go ahead - especially as the transfer turned out to be such a pleasant surprise (it's comfortably one of their best efforts on a decades-old title). And whatever Vampyr looks like, it can't be as bad as the Image Entertainment DVD with its notorious screen-filling Gothic-typefaced subtitles!

[Scharphedin2]

Peerpee, if work has been done already, release the disc. Release it in any event to the best standards that are possible with what materials are available. There is no shame in returning to the film 3-5 years down the road and do an upgrade, if something even better becomes available (other excellent DVD companies have been known to do so).

The other great differentiator between your discs (excellent transfers aside) and those of the majority of all other companies is the selection of films, and the value you add through the books and additional materials (even the classy design of covers, menus, etc.) So, please do release Vampyr. People have waited years, if not decades, to see this film, so, do not make them wait any longer.

[Nuno]

Peerpee, if work has been done already, release the disc. Release it in any event to the best standards that are possible with what materials are available. There is no shame in returning to the film 3-5 years down the road and do an upgrade, if something even better becomes available (other excellent DVD companies have been known to do so).

The other great differentiator between your discs (excellent transfers aside) and those of the majority of all other companies is the selection of films, and the value you add through the books and additional materials (even the classy design of covers, menus, etc.) So, please do release Vampyr. People have waited years, if not decades, to see this film, so, do not make them wait any longer.

I totally agree. Release it. Now :p

[Steven H]

I wonder if it would be more painful to say "I wish we had sat on that and not released it" or "it's a shame we didn't get that Vampyr disc out there earlier." I suppose it's always easier to come up with reasons not to do something, though. This is a tough one. I have no idea what I would be thinking in your shoes, but I know that I'll be buying an MoC Vampyr DVD the day it comes out, no matter.

[Person]

Nick, you could release it as a standard Eureka title (maybe at a lower price), then do a MoC edition in a few years.

[zedz]

I say release it now. It will be the best edition available of an essential film, and there's no shame if a subsequent restoration improves on it. And isn't it the case that this wouldn't be a matter of waiting for a film restoration that's already underway, but holding out for a possible restoration that we don't even know is going to happen?

[Luke M]

Isn't Criterion releasing Vampyr too? Couldn't the same pleads be directed at them?

[SoyCuba]

Release it now, no question about it. Any improvement over the Image disc is highly welcome, and longer wait would be a huge disappointment (and there are also no DVDs at the moment with correct aspect ratio!). I would certainly buy this version and a possible upgraded edition later. I saw the 1999 restored version (or at least I think it was that) on TV a while back and thought that it looked great. Sure there was a lot of print damage, but otherwise the image was very sharp and beautiful.

[hammock]

Make a limitid release that will recoup your costs and then delete it. That will please the die-hard collectors and have you back on zero.

[HerrSchreck]

For feedback, I was wondering specifically about Where We Are Now--

From what I can piece together from this, both MK2 and MoC/Eureka had access to the same film restoration (meaning photochemically restored, physically reassembled film reels): the Koerber job from 1999. The differences I gleaned off this site over the past couple months is that a) MK2 either received a SD digibeta from Germany which was incorrectly framed (or which they incorrectly framed in authoring?) at 1.33 by zooming in a 1.19 image. Or that they ran SD telecine themselves on the reels of the Koerber resto which they in turn cropped in to 1.33... and then

b) MoC's managed to convince the Danish Film Inst that they, the Danes, were the rightsholders of the title and got them to run a brand new telecine in HD showing all the info on the neg which minus the soundtrack is 1.19?

And so the problem now is whether or not to encode this frame data devoid of digital cleanup? In other words reel-blips/change markers, scratches, dust, splices glue stains, deterioration yadda yadda and produce a disc warts and all because there's no budget for MTI'ing the image data?

First question I'd ask is this... is there no money for MTI-style digital resto while factoring in a budget for a big book and commentary? Because I'd say dump the book and work on the film, which is what counts the most, especially if extras are bleeding budget from the film itself. Nothing wrong w a barebones masterpiece (see CC's SWORD OF DOOM, PORT OF SHADOWS and many others).

On the other hand, if you know someone in R1 (that is... you know whoterion) has access to the same HD, I can understand your fears that your release will be instantaneously superceded by by a co w a monstrous production budget that will make the film look like it was shot last week. If you budget cleanup but hold back extras-- or forget the cleanup but include extras-- the end result will not be long-term market competitive, and could even be trumped within a fraction of a year before costs are recovered...

Myself (as all well know) I don't mind clicks and pops and splices... they are part of the glorious physical manifestation of a vintage film, the fermentation or seasoning that flavors a film and gives you that great "old" atmosphere. Of course in today's techonological sphere of spoiled brat reviewers and misinformed but highly judgemental consumers completely oblivious to the challenges of bringing titles like these to market yet eager to rack snob-props and publicly pounce on anything perceievd to be sub-CC quality, I could understand yours & Doug's apprehension over a warts and all release. For the all-region art-market (like those who trod here & the beev), a jumpy, clickpoppy release could be a disaster... especially considering the fact that a weak dollar would make a CC VAMPYR a very appealing alternative for buyers in the UK and on the continent.

[Awesome Welles]

I say release it now and return to it in a few years when the restoration can be funded. Ultimately you are going to want to make money on your investment and I don't see any reason why people aren't going to want to upgrade at a later date. I've bought Metropolis three times and Nosferatu twice, I don't imagine releasing it now will damage future sales or harm the label's integrity. Well that's my opinion anyway...

[HerrSchreck]

If he knows that HD master is sitting in bigger budgeted hands (read: CC) right now, though, they might not even have time to recover their original investment, if the differences will be that stark. Believe me I want to see the restored version of the flick as soon as possible too, but I'd rather not see them take a bad hit on their biz model (and not take the classic Kino complaint "these bastards knowingly released a subpar edition of the film and took my dollar when they knew they could have done better"), which already took hits on their earlier silent titles. They dont need many more MICHAELS, TARTUF's etc. If MoC took the risk and the CC came out within a few months of that they may never see black ink on VAMPYR, making the creamalicious ultimo future release of it that much further behind the eight ball. If they were a not-for-profit I'd say FIRE AWAY!

Yes CC has upgraded titles but I don't think they ever released a title already knowing it was going to be superceded.

I think what Nick is trying to smoke out is how many folks will buy the film, fast and sure, to see if they can hit target-black.

[Awesome Welles]

I see what you're saying Schreck but then there are going to be a lot of domestic buyers who won't buy the CC even if it is better (it'll probably be double the price). If MoC can let Vampyr see the light of day by March and let retailers know to take pre-orders by February then that is probably going to be about six months of sales prior to CC? I guess it all depends on what kind of condition Vampyr is in and, importantly, what supplementary material the release will hold, I think if the film is going to be of sub-par quality but bolstered by great supplementary material then this makes the bitter pill all the more easy to swallow.

[Tommaso]

I see the difficulties here, but as I already have seen the Koerber resto via MK2 I'd say: there is really no problem with it, even if it may not be as clean or breathtakingly clear as the new "Nosferatu". For those who have only seen the Image disc: the improvement is so great that it's almost like watching a different film. And then just think about MoC finally releasing this in 1.19!! Think also of some other MoC discs: there are scratches on the Kurosawas, a crackly soundtrack on "Kwaidan" and also some blemishes on the Naruse. And who cares? Nobody.

In other words: put "Vampyr" out in 1.19 as soon as you can, and you will have masses of people (at least on this forum, and the rest of the world isn't as technically minded anyway) who will be ever thankful to you. If the fear of a CC release is an important point in your considerations, with the problems Schreck has pointed out, all the better if it came out soon. And if the set will be lavishly packaged with a booklet a la "Nosferatu" and "Tabu" you will always excel CC in this department anyway. Or if this seems too dangerous financially, make it a more 'normal' release. People will buy this anyway, if I remember the discussion about how many 'normal' viewers are still region-locked and the surprisingly well selling MoC release of "F is for Fake" despite of the CC.

[jt]

I think if you could get this out before CC had announced a street date for it, you'd be fine. The only people who would know that the image is not as good as possible are geeks like us and most of us will buy it anyway. Your main market, the British public, will never have seen this on the shelf before so they should pick it up. In the past, I have happily bought films I know could look better as I couldn't wait years for a better version (eg Caligari, Golem etc).

And if you did get your hands on a pristine new restoration in a few years, you could always do what CC did with Brazil and offer a cheap single disc upgrade for those who bought the original (double-disc digipack spectacular..?).

[Sloper]

Vampyr. NOW. *Footstomp*

I for one will probably wear out my copy within a few years, so will be more than happy to re-purchase, having subsisted on a diet of the awful Redemption VHS for the past seven years in the hope of a half-way decent restoration. I love this film, but feel like I have never really seen it. And I've been waiting for the MoC/Criterion/both for what feels like a vampire's lifetime...

Now now now now now now now.

Now.

[zone_resident]

Admittedly, this is a difficult situation -- but I also think that you should release it. The sooner, the better; in particular, if you have reasons to believe that a noteworthy release in R1 is (or, may be) imminent. As pointed out, adding remarkable extras (good commentary, Dreyer-related info/documentary, historical data, etc.) would certainly help.

Postponing the release of such an important film, presently represented in such a poor state in DVD medium, would be difficult to justify; considering also the investment you already made.

And, my sincere thanks for the great work you produced so far in MoC series. Looking forward to La Notte, Vampyr and others..

[HerrSchreck]

Heh heh.. this all feels very familiar for me: the desire to see the film at all costs , with a willingness to overlook slight shortcomings in budget or presentation, and damn the CC brats. I still think planning on two releases from the same beta and distributor is extremely unusual, but this title has suffered indeed and folks are sweating.

I can sympathize guys. But do remember w the dollar so weak I don't know that CC's are "so" prohibitive like someone said, and for Americans buying in the UK is a fucking disaster right now.

Certainly it's these proposed oddities and unknowns that have got them really torn here... it's not as completely sunshiney as you guys make it out to be.

Personally I think extras are overrated most of the time, in terms of revisitation. I think he could do a PORT OF SHADOWS type release, do some very basic cleanup w the saved funds, and create a very good release with an insert bookLET and knock it outa the park.

[Awesome Welles]

That's right Schreck, we're sweating. It's not that the CC's are prohibitively priced but that many people don't see the extra value in a prestige release such as Criterion, I know many people who buy purely for title rather than label and so will opt for the cheaper release, regardless of a differentiation in quality unless it is a stark contrast - well documented.

Then again I also know a lot of people who don't know who Carl Theodor Dreyer is or where Denmark is...

[Luke M]

Are Criterions really priced that much more than MoC? I know here in the US Criterions are significantly cheaper to purchase than to import a MoC (unless cd-wow decides to dump stock again). Regarding this conversation, I would definitely purchase a Vampyr now and then an upgraded version later. I think getting this release out as soon as possible and being the first in the world to release it would be a very good thing.

[Nuno]

...and being the first in the world to release it would be a very good thing.

Hum, not exactly....