The Musicals List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

An ongoing project to survey the best films of individual decades, genres, and filmmakers.
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knives
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Re: The Musicals List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Proj

#526 Post by knives » Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:43 pm

From the director of The Van Halen Story. I'm not sure what kind of sign that should be taken as.

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Re: The Musicals List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Proj

#527 Post by domino harvey » Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:35 pm

Rodgers and Hammerstein's Cinderella (Charles S Dubin 1965) CBS' updating of the original Julie Andrews-starring production a decade earlier has a vocal fanbase (Including my mother-- apparently our love of lissome gamines is genetic) and I'd long wanted to check it out despite my general intolerance of R+H, so special thanks go to Shout! for bringing this OOP title back on the DVD market. I can not speak for every fan of this production, but I can imagine that roughly 100% of the good will and love for this film is directly attributable to Lesley Ann Warren's unbelievably adorable portrayal of the titular damsel. All doe eyes and sideways grins, Warren's bashful cuteness is the epitome of non-sexually threatening attractiveness-- ie the perfect actress for Cinderella's perfect young girl wish fulfillment story.

As for the non-Lesley Ann Warren moments of the film, of which there are some, I will say that the songs are better than usual for R+H. However, the spare dance numbers are staged without imagination and the hideous local library-level production values and shot-on-video aspects of the film often highlight some of the worst flaws that a more polished production could smooth over. I don't understand why CBS went through the trouble of pre-taping this with several name Hollywood stars (Pidgeon, Ginger Rogers, Celeste Holm, Jo Van Fleet) only to use multiple video cams on three sound-stage sets garishly adorned for a pick-up puppet show.

I was especially struck during this interpretation of the fairy tale at the bizarreness of the prince's inability to recognize Cinderella when removed from the specific ballroom setting, especially since this version gives the prince and the waif an additional encounter prior to the ball wherein the two appear to share a moment before the prince, being hot shit that he is, seemingly abandons all memories of this event for recollections of fighting dragons and saving princesses (recited back in an appropriately-pitched tone of comic boredom). The prince's solution to the issue of falling in love with a woman who immediately abandons him (Walter Pidgeon as the King helpfully informs his son that this girl lacks the most important quality in a potential queen: she shouldn't disappear into thin air) is to just go from woman to woman prompting all women in the kingdom to try on the slipper, even those he held conversation with at the ball just prior. Whether intentional or not, this version highlights the coldness and detachment of the monarchy in this particular land, and yet all subjects we meet are head-over-heels for the young prince. And it's understandable, given that Stuart Damon's perf as the handsome prince hits the right notes of polite assholeishness and appealing sensitivity that despite the nagging questions about his methodology and actions, it's hard to still not pull for him and Cinderella to get together at the end. And that's of course why so many stories like this still get passed on-- they work.

What I appreciated most about this particular adaptation is its ability to understand and share the mindset of a young viewer who sees a movie like this at an impressionable age and has romantic notions introduced and reinforced in ways that culturally have not gone away in the nearly fifty years since it aired (though I'm not sure fairy tales hold the same degree of importance to kids of today as compared to even a generation prior, if my students are any proof). As presented here Cinderella is the ultimate romantic fantasy for anyone who's ever been young and unhappy: you are misunderstood and put down by those around you but with more resources you could sweep the most eligible and appealing romantic partner in the land of their feet. The object of your affection realizes this at the last moment, sweeps you off your feet, and you go off to live in unfathomable wealth, influence, and romantic bliss for all the rest of your days. Hell, forget being a kid, it sounds good now. Like our most popular new/modern fairy tale, Harry Potter, Cinderella centers around the idea that we are all secretly great and important. Here though there is an appealing humbleness to Warren's Cinderella, taking all licks in a Christlike-fashion and doing right and good at every turn. Warren's performance choices and the script wisely remove any sense of entitlement from the equation, though I'm not sure given the state of society in the present that those who've grown up with this story in other versions didn't take away the wrong message and add their own delusions of self-importance into it.

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Re: The Musicals List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Proj

#528 Post by domino harvey » Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:53 am

Phantom of the Paradise (Brian de Palma 1974) A good musical can have bad songs and a bad musical can have good songs, but it's so much nicer when one has both, isn't it? Not quite sure this one fits that bill, though the songs here are all so good that I don't think the overall experience could possibly have been sullied by even the most inept of final products. Though de Palma's manic virtuosity makes for a natural fit with a musical, I must admit this one didn't come off anywhere near what I was envisioning, and either there were some less than judicious cuts made to the film or de Palma just ditched helpful linking material to get to the songs and set pieces faster, but the film is often incoherent in its mad dash to be flashy and attention-seeking. Though no doubt it will all play better when I watch it again and again, because the songs will surely keep bringing me back. Jessica Harper may not be a name one goes to often in memory but I was thinking it over while watching this and she really does appear in a lot of interesting, often great films in her not that extensive filmography (requisite reminder to watch the brilliant Inserts goes here).

Stage Fright (Jerome Sable 2014) / the Legend of Beaver Dam (Jerome Sable 2010) Obviously the greatest achievement of making a slasher movie musical is hoodwinking all the die-hard horror fans into blind buying what is for 85% of the running time a throwback Broadway production (done on a small scale with no budget and sadly not particularly good songs, but still). This is a B-minus film but it's A+ bait-and-switch (and like the House of the Devil a few years back, the film's marketing is on-point as well). The audaciousness of the central genre conceit carries some weight, though, and the film is just a touch smarter than it needs to be, with a charming central performance by Allie MacDonald as the daughter of a slain Broadway star who decides to revive her mother's last, cursed role as the body count goes up around her. Director Jerome Sable clearly knows his genre stuff on both ends, though like many an 80s slasher despite common perceptions, much of the gore here seems to be a reluctant addition and there's an almost willful uncleverness to most of the murders (and it has as dumb an ending as any of the dregs of the genre). Also there's a weird tendency in the second half to give the question mark assailant their own musical numbers scored by shitty heavy metal and a squealing "funny" villain voice that is… regrettable. But I still walked away from this noble attempt willing to offer it a slight recommendation for its general amiability. Also, Stage Fright has the best "Based on a true story" title card I've ever seen.

The Best Buy exclusive on the Blu-ray for Stage Fright includes Sable's earlier short film, the Legend of Beaver Dam, which is in most ways a superior film, as the groundwork for making an unlikely pairing of musical and slasher movie (here Madman-esque undead camp-slayer tale) finds a more effective and efficient package. It's not every day you see a 12-minute film that manages to be both a catchy rock opera and a hard-R Goosebumps adventure!

Victor / Victoria (Blake Edwards 1982) Nominated for seven Oscars but not Best Picture (Because this was the year of Tootsie and two crossdressing comedies in the final five is excessive?), this was a popular and critical favorite and like nearly every other Blake Edwards film, it falls mostly flat for me. The central problem of the film is exemplified in its only functional working part, that of Lesley Ann Warren's Harlow-styled, Holliday-voiced tart (justly nommed for Best Supporting Actress in a much better perf than Jessica Lange's winning role). Warren's character and performance are the only ones in the entire too-safe, old fashioned production to hit the right levels of vulgarity a post-60s sex comedy like this needs to reach. Warren is brashly crude throughout her scant screentime (she basically only figures into the second act of the film, which makes the first and third an even heavier slog in comparison), punctuated with a cheerfully tasteless music number in which one of the dance moves involves bending over and spreading her cheeks.

In contrast to Warren, Edwards seems to be unsure how to proceed with the homosexual content of the film, treating Robert Preston and other gay characters with kid gloves of phony reverence that are really just acts of cowardice: Edwards is obviously comfortable enough with the strong showing of outward heterosexuality Warren represents, but not with any of the gay characters, who fall either into patter-happy queens or noble "regular joes," neither capable of arousing anyone's ire (or libido). And while the film circumvents the usual reveal of transvestism by having James Garner become aware of Julie Andrews' true sex, he does so while spying on her Porky's-style, and of course the film does not find this of any critical interest or worthy of comment. No, it'd much rather pencil in another bar fight, of which by my charitable estimate there are eight-thousand within the too-long 133 minute running time. Ultimately what we're left with is a bunch of cinematic white bread so formless that when the credits rolled, I was shocked: Did this film really think it had finished? I mean, I was glad to see it go, but that the final cherry on this fake-gay acceptance fraud is the hee-larious image of Robert Preston Friars Club-ing it in drag says more than enough about how far from the farm this one wandered.

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Re: The Musicals List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Proj

#529 Post by swo17 » Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:10 am

Phantom of the Paradise! I was wondering where you were going to fall on this one. Have you seen the Swan Song featurette on either the Arrow or Shout! editions? The film was indeed injudiciously hacked apart at the last minute. You can blame Led Zeppelin for that.

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Re: The Musicals List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Proj

#530 Post by domino harvey » Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:13 am

I have the Shout! disc(s), I'll make sure to watch that extra the next time I cue the film up

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Re: The Musicals List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Proj

#531 Post by swo17 » Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:14 am

In the meantime, you can read about it here.

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Re: The Musicals List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Proj

#532 Post by domino harvey » Sat May 02, 2015 2:16 pm

April Love (Henry Levin 1957) Squeaky-clean Pat Boone plays a JD, which is mostly indicated via not saying "thank you" and chewing gum, sent to Arthur O'Connell's farm for rehabilitation. Will there be a cute neighbor girl to romance? Will a horse that could never be tamed find itself under the spell of the outcast? Will Pat Boone exhibit all the screen presence of a pair of well-ironed church slacks? You know the answer, folks. I was glad to have seen this film finally via TT's 'Scope presentation, but it's nothing I'd ever sit through again. There is some minor interest in how the film attempts to navigate the new role teens were playing in American society at this time, and Shirley Jones is about the only thing here that works (and she has a fun number involving the changing of clothes that's about as wholesome as could be regardless of all the implied nudity), but ultimately this is a relic that doesn't offer much outside of its cultural context.

Call Me Madam (Walter Lang 1953) Walter Lang, Fox's go-to visionless automaton overseeing the studio's worst and most-bloated musicals, is at it again with this lifeless Irving Berlin adaptation. Ethel Merman is the neophyte diplomat sent by Washington to deal with a foreign country's economic crisis and ends up falling for George Sanders' apolitical general. Sanders is a master of getting through lousy contract-required films and he never looks anything but bored here. Donald O'Connor and Vera-Ellen as star-crossed lovers don't fare much better. The film does feature some interesting negotiations wherein the more one side wants to not borrow money from the US, the more the US wants to give it-- man, the 50s really were a time of boundless prosperity, huh?

Lost Horizon (Charles Jarrott 1973) I can imagine few ideas that make less sense than remaking Lost Horizon as a musical. Post-classical American musicals are already godawful in this period, but this takes some kind of prize. Lots of embarrassed-looking stars, including Peter Finch and Liv Ullmann, run through some truly dreadful music numbers. I could post at length a list of things to mock about this misfire, but it turns out Roger Ebert already did it for me forty-two years ago. His review is probably funnier if you've actually sat through all two and a half hours of this garbage, but it's worth reading regardless.

Shock Treatment (Jim Sharman 1981) Weird sorta-sequel to the Rocky Horror Picture Show from the same songwriter and with a handful of the original actors (though none of the actual stars). I've never heard much in the way of praise for this film, but I checked out one of the strength of one of the songs I randomly found on YouTube and overall my verdict is that overall it's about as good as the Rocky Horror Picture Show. Which is to say it's pretty much a mess and front-loaded with the best songs ("Denton USA" and especially "Bitchin' in the Kitchen" are great. But they also happen and are done twenty minutes into the movie). As for the movie's half-assed satiric barbs, they are confused at best-- the whole film takes place in a TV studio which is also functioning as a makeshift city and insane asylum (oooooookay), and That Means Something. Overall this is a painless misfire, but hardly a disaster (but then again, I'm not a card-carrying member of the RHPS cult, so take that for what it's worth).

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Re: The Musicals List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Proj

#533 Post by YnEoS » Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:40 pm

TCM doing their Summer of Darkness right before the noir list was some really good luck for me, but I'm guessing I won't be able to count on them to dedicate 2 months of screenings to every list we do on the forum, so I'm going to try and get a head start on the other genre lists whenever there's interesting stuff on. TCM showed a number of musicals recently and had a whole day of Fred Astaire movies for their Summer Under the Stars thing they're doing this month. My Fred Astaire education was a little backwards with The Band Wagon being the first film of his I saw, and aside from that the only other one I had previously seen was Swing Time. So really glad I could fill all those in, and see some other interesting musicals.


Broadway Gondolier (Lloyd Bacon, 1935) – Dick Powell can’t get a break as a singing cab driver, but finds himself much more marketable when he travels to Italy and becomes a singing gondolier. What will happen if people find out he’s not really Italian!? Nothing wrong with this, but I found it very tiresome and dull. Not even the farm animal song makes it worth sitting through.

Gold Diggers of 1935 (Busby Berkeley, 1935)
– So, this was the first Busby Berkeley musical I’ve seen, and wowie!!!

Give a Girl a Break (Stanley Donen, 1953) – I thought this was pretty incredible, and jeez was this tense. I really thought this did a good job of building the anticipation of an audition and like that they made all 3 women equally talented and made me want to root for each of them. I was expecting the whole time for there to be some crazy scheme to bring them all into the musical, but was really glad that it went for the more true scenario of 3 very deserving performers and not enough roles for all of them. And what great song and dance numbers!

Summer Holiday (Rouben Mamoulian, 1948) – I don’t have a lot of context for these small town musicals so I'm still sorting out how to rank and categorize them. This was enjoyable enough and Mickey Rooney reading communist literature was an amusing touch. The whole woman from a city corrupting Mickey Rooney stuff was kind of flatly handled, I guess there’s probably some camp value to be found in there, but I was kind of meh’d by it.

Small Town Girl (László Kardos, 1953)
– Having Farley Granger locked up in jail for most of the film is such a fun premise for a musical! This had lots of really great dance numbers here as well. I found this was way more enjoyable than Summer Holiday.

TCM Summer Under the Stars 2015: Fred Astaire

Flying Down to Rio (Thornton Freeland, 1933) – Perhaps the core plot here is a little unremarkable, but I thought this really crackled! I know nothing about this era, but is this the only pre-code Astaire-Rogers film? The witty innuendo-laden dialog and knack for visual and auditory gags really give this a lot of energy. Maybe its one of the lesser ‘Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers Musicals’, but this was one of my favorite musicals with Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers in it.

The Gay Divorcee (Mark Sandrich, 1934) – Perhaps this got used as the blueprint for many of the later films, but I thought this one stood out from the later iterations in shifting the misunderstanding by having Ginger Rogers catch on before Fred Astaire does, when she’s usually the last one to know. I enjoy some of the other variations, but I thought this had a nicer balance and flow to it than most.

Roberta (William A. Seiter, 1935) – The double plotlines of this and Follow the Fleet didn’t work at all for me. There’s some likable things here but I was completely unengaged with most of the narrative developments.

Top Hat (Mark Sandrich, 1935) – I thought this film did the best job of building up the misunderstandings to the furthest possible extreme and it worked well for me both in terms of comedy and legitimate tension. Lots of really solid material here, like when Fred Astaire is tap dancing above Ginger Roger’s room in the beginning.

Follow the Fleet (Mark Sandrich, 1936)
– I loved the opening "We Saw The Sea" number, but afterwards this really lost me. All the stuff involving Randolph Scott wanting to captain a boat and the sisters’ father having once owned a boat seemed hopelessly convoluted and uninteresting.

Swing Time (George Stevens, 1936) – Not one of my favorites of the bunch, but still really great.

Carefree (Mark Sandrich, 1938) – While the narrative in here was probably not as engaging as some other variations, some parts of this were a hell of a lot of fun, like pretty much every scene were Ginger Rogers is under hypnosis and just going crazy. I kind of like that this is sort of the most extreme variation of the usual plot setup where Ginger Rogers is just flat out hypnotized into trying to marry someone she'll be unhappy with, instead of some strange plot misunderstandings making her decide to spontaneously marry the first goof she comes into contact with.

The Story of Vernon and Irene Castle (H.C. Potter, 1939)
– I quite enjoyed this, though that’s probably more due to the interest of seeing a new variation of the Astaire-Rogers couple more than the filmmaking here. It was a refreshing switchup to see them working together as a married couple rather than watching Fred Astaire have to navigate some weird web of misunderstandings and hijinks. I secretly wish the slapstick numbers didn’t have to be the lowpoint for Fred Astaire’s character, as that would’ve been fun to see him do a lot more of those genuinely.

Shall We Dance (Mark Sandrich, 1937)
– This was another excellent variation on their formula, and I thought this film had some of the best character moments during the dance sequences. That moment where Fred Astaire slowly reveals he can tap dance to Ginger Roger’s character part way through the dance is probably one of the most delightful things to watch.

You Were Never Lovelier (William A. Seiter, 1942) – I thought the setup here was a little slow, but otherwise another delightful movie. Perhaps not quite the same energy as the Astaire-Rogers films, but really enjoyable none the less and a nice switch up.

Bandwagon (Vincente Minnelli, 1953) – Still one of the most fun possible things to watch.

Silk Stockings (Rouben Mamoulian, 1957)
– I’m not super enthusiastic about the Ninotchka storyline, but, as with the older one, some really great performances do wonders to elevate the material . I’m probably wearing out my superlatives by now so I should figure out more intelligent ways to discuss musicals but this was another delightful film.

Royal Wedding (Stanley Donen, 1951) – Not as involved with the characters this one, but still a really beautiful film with a lot of fun numbers.

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Re: The Musicals List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Proj

#534 Post by domino harvey » Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:15 pm

An interesting selection, I've seen all of them but Broadway Gondolier. Small Town Girl is the best of the small town musicals, the two Doris Day Booth Tarkington movies are the worst. Everything else falls between. I used to be pretty down on Silk Stockings, though I think "Stereophonic Sound" is one of the greatest off all musical numbers, but I started rewatching it recently and loved it, so I'm not sure what my problem was with it.

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Re: The Musicals List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Proj

#535 Post by bottled spider » Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:02 am

Finally got around to watching Silk Stockings, with much skepticism (but what to do, I'm running out of Astaire films), only to be rewarded with one of best. The only shortcoming of this film is that it's dull up until Charisse & Astaire's first dance.

Oodles of sex appeal -- Yoshenka's risqué silk stocking scene is almost shocking. At the same time, it's one of most tasteful Astaire films, with nothing cringe-inducing in it. The dancing is top notch: Charisse & Astaire's first dance in his apartment, their second one at the studio, Charisse's lingerie solo, the big number "Red Blues", and Astaire's final number. The absence of gimmicky stunt dancing is a refreshing change. Just really elegant stuff.

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Re: The Musicals List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Proj

#536 Post by domino harvey » Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:48 am

Recent viewings:

Aladdin (Ron Clements and John Musker 1992) And with this rewatch I can now safely declare the Little Mermaid to be in no danger of relinquishing its crown as the best of the Disney Renaissance. I liked this when I was a kid, though mostly for the songs (I definitely played the tape of this soundtrack all the time), and that’s pretty much where I fall again as an adult. There are some good songs, though despite all efforts, nothing here is as show-stoppingly perfect as “Kiss the Girl” or “Under the Sea.” Robin Williams’ schtick lands more often than it falters, which is good because there is so much of it. However, the film has no internal logic thanks to indulging all of Williams’ improvs and suffers as a result, anticipating Family Guy-style narratives years in advance. That isn’t a good thing.

Anything Goes (Robert Lewis 1956) It's hard to go wrong with great Cole Porter tunes and a cast including Donald O'Connor, Bing Crosby, and Vera Ellen, but this movie exceeds expectations in the not-right direction by being perfectly awful. I kept up hopes for entire minutes until the first number, one of the worst I've ever seen in any musical, shamelessly rips off "Make 'Em Laugh" minus wit, clever dancing, adept songwriting, and anything else that made that number so memorable (besides Donald O'Connor, who is helplessly adrift here). Save the decent finale, the musical numbers are unimaginatively staged and the arrangements limp and miscalculated, especially Jeanmarie's truly hideous slowkey defilement of "I Get a Kick Out of You." Speaking of, the callous Leslie Caron-aping of Jeanmarie's presence here is an insult to viewers of all walks of life, as her screen presence has all the pleasure of being kicked in the face.

Billy Rose’s Jumbo (Charles Walters 1962) The slew of circus-themed films that flourished in the fifties into the early sixties in Hollywood produced meager positive returns: the Greatest Show on Earth won Best Picture in 1952 (and became a living embodiment of Oscar cowardice in the interim despite being a decent film) and Danny Kaye made a wonderful underrated musical set under the Big Top with Merry Andrew. But we mostly got unwatchable dreck like Carol Reed’s Trapeze and this, coming in at the tail end of the craze and embarrassingly square and out of step with the era, is the worst of the lot. The mediocre songs and body double work are plentiful. Entertainment is not. It does feature Martha Raye with giant inflatable clown breasts, though, so perhaps some fetish lover in the Warner offices can be blamed for this somehow making it to Blu-ray.

Higher and Higher (Tim Whelan 1944) Michele Morgan is wasted in this dumb upstairs/downstairs musical as a scullery maid masquerading as an heiress in order to save her boss’ fortune and standing with the other hoi polloi. Even the comic bits that work, like how Morgan keeps finding herself doing menial labor by default instead of acting like a member of the ruling class, don’t make much sense: unless this character is mentally retarded, would she really think she needs to scrub the front stoop the day after her debutante premiere? Frank Sinatra makes his film debut as… Frank Sinatra, the popular singer across the street.

Love Me or Leave Me (Charles Vidor 1955) I know this has its fans but I found this barely watchable, with James Cagney’s (inexplicably Oscar-nominated) pathetic gangster ruining aspiring singer Doris Day’s life with his jealousy and need to control. By the time the film practically defends Cagney and shares Day’s abused wife mentality, I was more than happy to take the latter option offered by the film’s title.

Lullaby of Broadway (David Butler 1951) Gene Nelson is described at least three or four times in this film as an amazing dancer. I guess the studio hoped if they said it enough people might not notice he’s really, really not. Acrobatic and athletic, maybe, but lacking style, charm, and rhythm to be sure. He even jokes at one point that he’s better than Fred Astaire. Oh child, no. The film he finds himself in is a tired (loose) reworking of Lady for a Day, with Doris Day being quasi-romanced by SZ “Cuddles” Sakall, who provides the only saving graces of this bottom of the barrel musical. I spent a lot of the running time of this film creating an imagined biography for Sakall’s career. I decided his daughter married one of the Warner Brothers and they liked his dinner table presence enough to put him in movies. Anything to not focus on the actual film we got was a good investment of time here, really.

Nine (Rob Marshall 2009) A musical remake of 8 1/2 with songs you forget the moment they end (sometimes sooner than that) and a lot of good actors phoning it in, rudderless in a production set adrift in the cosmos. Marshall proves his great Chicago was a lucky fluke. Penelope Cruz was presumably only Oscar-nominated because voters wanted to fuck her (?). An utterly unnecessary movie.

Step Lively (Tim Whelan 1944) Let’s remake a Marx Brothers movie! And make Frank Sinatra the straight man! And other bad ideas!

Thirty-Two Short Films About Glenn Gould (Francois Girard 1993) A fun concept that never quite rises above the novelty of its construction— we do indeed get thirty-two vignettes explaining Gould, some just interviews with those who knew him, others full-on biopic moments— but it proves a decent enough entertainment, and at not much over an hour and a half, it doesn’t outstay its welcome.

Young Man With a Horn (Michael Curtiz 1950) Lovely classic Hollywood tale of a musician’s rise and downfall (and somewhat unconvincing literal last-minute salvation), with Kirk Douglas doing strong work as an uneducated trumpet player who somehow ends up unhappily married to psychiatrist-in-training Lauren Bacall (doing the ice queen thing to perfection). I enjoyed the film’s topical embodiment of the era’s skepticism of psychiatry, and Douglas’ relationship with his black mentor is given surprising depth and importance in the film, making it far more progressive in its fashion than many so-called liberal pics of the day. Recommended.

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Re: The Musicals List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Proj

#537 Post by dustybooks » Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:34 pm

domino harvey wrote:Love Me or Leave Me (Charles Vidor 1955) I know this has its fans but I found this barely watchable, with James Cagney’s (inexplicably Oscar-nominated) pathetic gangster ruining aspiring singer Doris Day’s life with his jealousy and need to control. By the time the film practically defends Cagney and shares Day’s abused wife mentality, I was more than happy to take the latter option offered by the film’s title.
I didn't see this film as defending Moe, although obviously that's going to vary from person to person. I found this one of the more harrowing portraits of an abusive relationship I've seen, with some scenes calling up uncomfortable memories from growing up with my dad. That might be why I found Cagney's performance very moving -- he's a monster but he's also a human being who's clearly broken. It's been too long since I've seen the film to mount any further defense, but I did love this, and Day's work in it really turned around my opinion of her. (Since she'd been married to an extremely violent man earlier in her life and her career was ostensibly controlled by her second husband, I also wonder how much of herself she saw in Etting.)

The movie I thought of when reading your criticisms was Interrupted Melody, the weird MGM biopic of Marjorie Lawrence; after a search I see that you've seen it, and I agree with your remarks. It sticks out in my mind as being oddly mean-spirited, with exploitative shots of Eleanor Parker writhing across the floor to turn off a recording of her own music, etc.

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Re: The Musicals List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Proj

#538 Post by domino harvey » Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:40 pm

I was thinking specifically of the ending,
SpoilerShow
with Day appearing at Cagney's club and him putting on the airs of being what he always pretended he was. I thought the film did a good job of making him a loser up until this, and then it rewarded him at the end (after shooting the piano player, no less) with what he always dreamed of?

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Re: The Musicals List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Proj

#539 Post by YnEoS » Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:52 pm

Playing catchup on more essentials I haven't seen yet. I think it might have been a mistake to watch some of the higher ranking films first, because I don't think I've seen enough to be able to say anything interesting about them. I may try to watch them more chronologically and get a mix of good and bad films so I'm not just nodding along in agreement so much. Anyways here are some random thoughts on the most recent batch.

42nd Street (Lloyd Bacon, 1933)
– This was a solid musical, though I’m slightly baffled by its high placement over the other Busby Berkeley musicals. Searching through other forum posts on it, I see I’m not the only one confused by its high ranking though.

Gold Diggers of 1933 (Mervyn LeRoy, 1933) – Much better improvement over the previous film, better plot, more memorable characters, and big dance numbers more evenly spread across the film.

Footlight Parade (Lloyd Bacon, 1933)
– By far my favorite of the Busby Berkley musicals, all the strengths of ’33, throw in James Cagney on top of everything and there’s really no way not to love this.

Meet Me in St Louis (Vincente Minnelli, 1944)– This was overall a very solid musical and quite enjoyable. The seasonal structure was interesting, I like the idea of time experiencing the different moods of a time and place instead of a more forward driven plot, but as a drawback the film did kind of lack any big high points for me. Maybe I’m just overly fussy watching this after the big finishes of the Busby Berkeley musicals. I was really hoping there was going to be a season spent in New York and then a return back to St Louis later, I didn't quite feel any strong attachment to it at the very end.

The Harvey Girls (George Sidney, 1946) – This was a nice premise for a film and quite a bit of fun. I’m not sure I’ve seen enough musical westerns to really contextualize it and saying anything intelligent about it though.

Good News (Charles Walters, 1947)
– This was terrifically fun. Some particularly memorable moments were the re-occurring joke of the football player who’s reading psychology, and the pass the peace pipe musical number.

On The Town (Stanley Donen and Gene Kelly, 1949)
– In an attempt to avoid piling up more exclamations about how fun this movie was, I’ll say that I thought this was a wonderful minimally structured film. I thought it worked very well how they built up the "Miss Turnstiles" character and spent the beginning trying to find her, then kept twisting it, with the other two sailors meeting women and then abandoning the search and then the desire to pretend that she was bigger than she was ended up temporarily separating them. Small stuff I guess, but I think getting the mechanics dead on is really what helps all the other elements, the musical numbers, the actors and everything really come together to make a great film.

Gentlemen Prefer Blondes (Howard Hawks, 1953) – Jane Russell is really great in this, I had a huge grin on my face during the song with the Olympic swimming team.

Artists and Models (Frank Tashlin, 1955) – This was the first Martin and Lewis film I’ve seen and I thought their relationship worked really well together. I liked that the plot really went for broke at the end.

Hollywood or Bust (Frank Tashlin, 1956) – Though I really liked Artists and Models, this one fit together a lot better for me in the end. Really terrific road movie with singing, and once again the Martin and Lewis relationship is very strong here, although also a nice variation from Artists and Models.


I'm also going through HK cinema in more depth right now, so I'll start leaving some comments on HK musicals here as well. If we end up doing another round of musical lists, I'm not sure if that many HK films would make my top 50. There wasn't really a strong supply of modern dance choreographers in Hong Kong and so musicals that don't draw on Chinese theatrical styles are mostly sung only with very little dancing. Scripts also tended to be much more hastily written compared to Hollywood and the the plot structures are not as well. None the less the films can still be quite enjoyable and its interesting to see a completely different studio system's output in contrast to hollywood. While there might have been some great opportunities for fight choreographers to contribute to musicals, the genre really died out in the 70s, and the two genres didn't co-exist for very long. At the moment I'm looking at 60s cinema, but the most popular HK musicals are the ones made by MP&GI in the 50s, so I hope to go back and cover those eventually.


The Mermaid (Kao Li, 1965) – Huang Mei Diao Opera with Ivy Ling Po in the male lead playing a poor scholar staying with the rich family he’s supposed to marry into. The family and his fiancée want to get rid of him and have him confined in his study.. A carp spirit outside his room decides to disguise itself as his fiancée and thinking that he’s having this secret romance at night, the stage is set for a bunch of mistaken identity shenanigans. This culminates in a crazy finale where they eventually need to have a trial to discover which of the girls is the real one, and another underwater spirit decides to disguise itself as the judge to further complicate things. Basically a prolonged excuse to show off lots of split screen effects, but the end result is enjoyable light entertainment, and Ivy Ling Po gives an enjoyable performance as always.

The Butterfly Chalice (Yuen Chau Fung, Chang Cheh, 1965) – Chang Cheh insisted on breaking tradition and having the male lead be played by a male actor. This has some pretty violent and bloody battle scenes and although Huang Mei Diao operas often had fight scenes, this one definitely pushed the genre closer to full wuxia territory. A historical curiosity, but I didn’t think it was either a great huang mei diao opera, nor a great wuxia.

The Grand Substitution (Yan Jun, 1965) – The emperor has a corrupt adviser who ends up taking control and murdering the families of anyone who opposes him. This basically consists of a number of scenes of individuals making extraordinary sacrifices in order to ultimately improve the nation in the distant future. Ivy Ling Po plays a prince who grows up not knowing about the sacrifices of his family who eventually needs to discover who he really is and take revenge. Not exactly my favorite type of film, but I think it’s one of the better examples of this genre of orphans and forgotten traumatic pasts that were often made by the displaced Mandarin filmmakers in Hong Kong.

Pink Tears (Chun Kim, 1965) – Set in modern times, a single mother sings at parties for rich old men in order to support her child. She also has tuberculosis, which is being aggravated by her lifestyle and she end up falling for her daughter’s piano teacher. She attempts to have a normal family life only to find social stigma of her past life won’t let her. The melodrama here is a bit of an unfocused grab bag of things to throw in front of the protagonists. Moving between her health, different societal/job pressures, and her daughter initially not wanting her to Mom to marry her piano teacher. Julie Yeh Feng’s singing is really terrific though and having the love interest be a piano teacher is well utilized for dramatic effect in the musical numbers later in the film. The production design in some the giant mansions is also really nice looking.

The Lotus Lamp (Griffin Yueh Feng, 1965) – One of Linda Lin Dai’s last two films to be released after she committed suicide. This is a pretty simple fantasy/revenge story stretched out over two hours. Linda Lin Dai is a fairy who has a child with a human (Chang Pei Pei, giving Ivy Ling Po a break from playing all the male leads in opera films this year). She is imprisoned for having her child, also played Linda Lin Dai also plays the child who grows up and gets revenge. Not bad, but I found it pretty generic.

The Lark (Sit Kwan, 1965) – A modern musical and probably the most well crafted and energetic of all the films I watched this year. Peter Chen Ho is an awkward photographer for a newspaper who’s always late to get any good photographs. His last chance is to get an inside story on a recent scandal by the pop star "Little Lark", he earns her trust by pretending to be a record label executive, but falls in love with her while trying to get the story. There’s some pretty solid physical comedy work throughout here and the whole plot is fun and has lots of energy. The musical numbers are not integrated in the plot at all, and basically every big pop song of the year was jammed in here. Usually there are 2-3 songs in a row justified by the various settings the plot takes place in, like a night club, or in the recording studio. Most of the songs are just standing and singing without dancing, but the film ends with a big stage performance and 4 choreographed dance numbers in a row. Definitely the best songs and dance numbers I’ve seen for this years films.

West Chamber (Griffin Yueh Feng, 1965)
– Ivy Ling Po is once again playing a lonely scholar in search of love. This time he’s staying at a temple to study when he catches a glimpse of a beautiful woman living in the West Chamber. He’s forbidden to go there or see her, but they sing to each other over the wall at night. Basically he tries to marry her, but a number of societal rules continue keeping them separated for each other. Pretty simple, but overall a pretty good romantic tragedy.

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htom
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Re: The Musicals List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Proj

#540 Post by htom » Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:03 pm

Looking at the final list, it occurred to me that there were very few musicals I had seen that were not on the list, orphans and all, with a couple of notable exceptions. Typically, they were watched on television (pan and scan and commercial breaks and likely edited) but their links to some of the more highly regarded are present:

Bells Are Ringing (Vincente Minnelli, 1960). As the last musical by Arthur Freed's unit at MGM, Vincente Minnelli's last MGM musical, the last film musical with a screenplay by Betty Comden and Adolph Green, and Judy Holliday's last film, there is a remarkable amount of finality surrounding this production, though perhaps only in hindsight. But for me it remains entertaining enough, although the "swipe" at Brando and the Actors' Studio in general embodied by Frank Gorshin's character was a bit old even then. It also reminded me somewhat that Comden and Green were able to write very good comedies that also happened to be musicals. Songs like the title number and "Just in Time" are still memorable.

This wasn't Minnelli's last musical, though. That was:

On a Clear Day You Can See Forever (Vincente Minnelli, 1970). There are memorable songs from Alan Jay Lerner and Burton Lane in the title song and "Come Back to Me" but the fact that the modern day sequences are almost exclusively comedic and the flashback sequences (with Cecil Beaton providing costume designs for the last time) almost exclusively dramatic was probably too much of a shift in tone for me when I saw it; it probably didn't help that I had just seen Far from the Madding Crowd and some similarities meant these sequences suffered in comparison. Now being aware that Jack Nicholson had his only song cut from the final product when the film was edited down from roadshow length provides some curiosity value. Still, in the end this was a Barbra Streisand musical from the time they actually used to make them, for good or bad.

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Re: The Musicals List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Proj

#541 Post by tarpilot » Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:46 am

THE TRIAL OF RED RIDING HOOD (Eric Till, 1992)
Pretty insane Canadian TV movie musical ice capades courtroom comedy (or something) starring figure skating babe Elizabeth Manley (BEST LONG EVER) and sitcom dad-babe Alan Thicke as 'Phineas T. Wolf'. It begins post-killing with Red standing accused in Canuckaroo court and quickly weaves in other fairy tales via witness flashback, the obvious highlight a baffling 3-hip-hop-pigs musical number (18:00 here) that seems equally indebted to the Beastie Boys, Devo, and Meat Loaf. The other songs are whatever but sometimes catchy and clever, and the trial scenes find a nice Wonderlandesque rhythm with of-course appearances by Andrea Martin and Luba Goy. Thicke literally just does an impression of Michael Keaton in Beetlejuice behind pipecleaners. Manley is very charming in her role and gets to do some nice skating, including a well-staged fantasy number at the end that turns into a skate-fight with the wolf.

edit: the exuberance of Calgary will make it forever my favourite but this one from '86 is incredible.

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Re: The Musicals List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Proj

#542 Post by YnEoS » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:07 am

I’ve been watching some musicals on and off the past few months. I forgot to write down notes for all , so I won’t necessarily have detailed things to say for each of them but I’ll try to include my general thoughts.



Hallelujah I’m a Bum (Lewis Milestone, 1933) - I thought was okay but nothing particularly special.

Dames (Ray Enright, Busby Berkeley, 1934) - didn’t have too many musical numbers, but I enjoyed the story and the big finale.

The Merry Widow (Ernst Lubitsch, 1934) - was pretty wonderful overall.

Broadway Melody of 1936 (Roy Del Ruth, W.S. Van Dyke, 1935) - I had no idea who Eleanor Powell was before seeing this film, at first I thought it was quite enjoyable and amusing, but I was absolutely blown away by the dancing. Added a lot more Eleanor Powell films to my watch list after this one.

Show Boat (James Whale, 1936) had a few very strong numbers and I liked the duration of the story over several years, but I didn’t really get quite immersed in it, but I think it warrants revisiting sometime.

Born to Dance (Roy Del Ruth, 1936) - I forgot most of this except for the park scene, I think the dancing was good, but I didn’t think Eleanor Powell and James Stewart worked well together.

Babes in Arms (Busby Berkeley, 1939) - This started out really fun with lots of charming performances. I thought it was going to be one of my favorites, but I didn’t think the ending was particularly successful. The last two numbers weren’t the best, and the love triangle wasn’t particularly well executed. June Preisser’s scene where she does some tumbles to warm up was really impressive, I wish they had worked that into one of the big dance scenes.



Broadway Melody of 1940 (Norman Taurog, 1940) - the story was pretty simple here, but I thought overall this was well executed and it was enough to add some extra emotion to the dance numbers. Fred Astaire and Eleanor Powell were absolutely great together.



Lady Be Good (Norman Z. McLeod, Busby Berkeley, 1941) - The framing story was alright, but not too spectacular, having Eleanor Powell relegated to a side plot really takes the kick out of her big numbers. I don’t think there’s ever been a more disappointing moment in film than when we see the big dance finale and then flashback to the courtroom. Still while this doesn’t work as whole for me, there are tons of great individual numbers here. Particularly memorable was Eleanor Powell dancing with a dog and the brief bits with Virginia O’Brien.



For Me and My Gal (Busby Berkeley, 1942) - Simple yet very effective, I got completely swept away by this one and all the plot machinations. I thought Judy Garland and Gene Kelley did great together, and George Murphy had some strong work with his few small scenes.

Panama Hattie (Norman Z. McLeod, 1942) - The main storyline here isn’t too interesting, but there are so many good performances and characters here that this ends up being a really fun world to inhabit. The best part of this was Virginia O’Brien, who I noticed in Lady Be Good, but who gets a bit of a more substantial role here and sings 3 songs. From what I’ve read this seems to be one of her biggest parts in a musical (she has 1 role as a romantic lead), in part because Ann Sothern wouldn’t do one of the songs, so I’m quite glad I got to see it. Her dead pan comedy is great and I really wish she had a chance to do something bigger with it. If anyone has any recommendations for other good Virginia O’Brien performances I’d love to know



Cabin in the Sky (Vincente Minnelli, 1943) - Pretty entertaining, with several great performances.

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Re: The Musicals List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Proj

#543 Post by Werewolf by Night » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:03 pm

YnEoS wrote:If anyone has any recommendations for other good Virginia O’Brien performances I’d love to know
The Harvey Girls and Du Barry Was a Lady.

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domino harvey
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Re: The Musicals List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Proj

#544 Post by domino harvey » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:14 pm

Well, you're half right (DuBarry stinks on ice)

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Re: The Musicals List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Proj

#545 Post by Werewolf by Night » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:21 pm

As a movie, absolutely yes, but I like Virginia O'Brien in it. I guess one could skip the bad meal and go straight to the dessert on YouTube.

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Re: The Musicals List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Proj

#546 Post by YnEoS » Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:56 pm

Been on a bit of a musical binge lately, so far even my least favorites of what I’ve watched have been fairly entertaining, so its been fairly easy to keep watching lots of these at a time. I probably should’ve posted more of these as I was going along, so apologies for dumping these all at once. Anyways I’ve probably seen a decent amount for now so I’ll try to focus a bit on the Western list.



Yankee Doodle Dandy (Michael Curtiz, 1942) - Don’t have too much to say, but I really like James Cagney in musicals, and I thought this was a great story.



Ship Ahoy (Edward Buzzell, 1942) - I probably spent way too much time thinking about this one because of overinflated expectations of an Eleanor Powell movie with Virginia O'Brien as her sidekick. The short version is that a lot of good elements here get fumbled by clumsy execution.



Eleanor Powell and Red Skelton for the most part work pretty well together, but it runs into issues when it plays their relationship as a conventional romance. A lot of times we’re expected to laugh at Red Skelton, but his goofiness doesn't seem to be part of Eleanor Powell’s interest in him most of the time. There is one scene that works really well both for the characters and as a twist on a common musical trope. They’re dancing to a song and when the singer on stage stops, Red Skelton picks the song up, but instead of going unnoticed as in most musicals, Eleanor Powell gets suddenly embarrassed by it. I felt like if they had incorporated more moments like this into the relationship it could’ve been pulled off really well.

Virginia O'Brien has comparatively more screen time than some of her other roles, but is for the most part wasted on here. Basically she gets a number of scenes where Bert Lahr, an obsessed fan, makes advances on her, and she responds with her usual deadpan sarcasm. But this never really develops anywhere, its just mindlessly repeated to no payoff of interest.

The plot starts off with lots of fun elements, but then completely mishandles the execution. A lot of secrets are in play that I was waiting to be paid off between the characters, but then they are either not resolved on screen, or not in any satisfying way between the protagonists. Like a lot of these Red Skelton WW2 musicals this has a spy plot too. It worked pretty well in Panama Hattie by giving it to the side comedy characters and not letting it interfere with the main romance plot too much. Here they weave it in with the final musical number, but instead of heightening the drama, it felt like it just distracted my ability to appreciate Eleanor Powell’s dancing.



Despite having mostly negative things to say about the film, it was pretty fun, but it was constantly frustrating, because I felt with a little better execution it had the potential to be one of my favorites.



I Dood it (Vincente Minnelli, 1943) - This worked surprisingly well, I thought the Red Skelton Eleanor Powell relationship was much better handled here than Ship Ahoy. Although there are some really random turns of plot in this movie, each scene manages to be pretty absorbing. I think this also has the best Lena Horne musical number I’ve seen so far. This was a solid piece of entertainment.



Best Foot Forward (Edward Buzzell, 1943) - Dramatically this seemed a bit slow in the middle section, but I thought all the characters here were really well developed and the film did a good job of portraying everyone sympathetically. A lot of strong and unique elements here.

Girl Crazy (Norman Taurog, Busby Berkeley, 1943) - I thought this was overall a great improvement over Babes in Arms. The plot was absorbing throughout, Judy Garland’s character is a lot more interesting here, and a nice big musical finale. Don’t have many specifics to go into, but this was definitely a favorite.



Presenting Lily Mars (Norman Taurog, 1943) - This starts off with such a great opening scene, and sustains lots of energy throughout. Really like seeing Judy Garland’s character grow over the course of this film. As I think others have commented previously, I don’t think the film needed Judy Garland and Van Heflin to end up together, but the film is so great on so many other levels, I’m willing to go along for the ride.

Thousands Cheer (George Sidney, 1943) - I thought the relationship between Kathryn Grayson and Gene Kelly was done really well here. I found this one for the most part really absorbing, but that assemblage of acts at the end was just interminably long. I enjoyed some of the performances, but it just felt like such an anticlimactic interruption of the film. I’m tempted to edit my own cut of this with the various acts separated as their own thing so I can enjoy the story of this one on its own.

Stormy Weather (Andrew L. Stone, 1943) - A lot of great performances here, and I think this is probably the best of the all black musicals I’ve seen so far. I think there are still some issues here with the genre, but its great to see a lot of these actors in musical sequences that are more embedded in the narrative for a change.



The Gang’s All Here (Busby Berkeley, 1943) - This was great fun, big spectacle on display, but I also thought it was really witty and I loved most of the characters.

Ratan (M. Sadiq, 1944) - I really liked the music in this, but the story kind of replays the same emotions for long periods of time, with not too much interesting characterization or dramatic drive.



Anmol Ghadi (Mehboob Khan, 1946) - This had a similar story to Ratan with two lovers who society is keeping apart for class reasons. There’s a lot more going on in this version, with additional characters that are developed over time and make the tragedy much more interesting to watch unfolding. Not a favorite, but pretty solid film overall.



Easter Parade (Charles Walters, 1948) - I found this pretty enjoyable for the most part, and I thought the songs and stories worked really well together although if it had a few stronger musical numbers it would’ve really soared.



Romance on the High Seas (Michael Curtiz, 1948) - I thought this was an incredibly well scripted and fun film, pretty much not a second lost. I’m not sure if the musical numbers really stood out here, but I was having so much fun it didn’t matter to me. One of my favorites so far. Oscar Levant has some great throwaway lines here, are there any other films where he plays such great side characters besides the obvious stuff like An American in Paris and The Band Wagon?

Words and Music (Norman Taurog, 1948) - The relationships and storyline here are just so terribly dull, it feels like this film only had a few cards to play and it threw them all out near the beginning with very little finesse. Pretty much all of the strong musical performances have absolutely nothing to do with the story here, so thankfully we have YouTube now to rescue them from awful films like this.

A Song is Born (Howard Hawks, 1948) - Probably some of the most fun musical performances of any of the films I’ve watched so far. The story might not be quite as strong as other Howard Hawks films, but for the most part I found it quite entertaining. Definitely one of the biggest surprise favorites from what I’ve seen so far.


In the Good Old Summertime (Robert Z. Leonard, 1949) - While not my favorite shop around the corner adaptation, I found this quite enjoyable and I liked the musical numbers. Not a favorite, but I’m glad I watched it.

Take Me Out to the Ball Game (Busby Berkeley, 1949) - Frank Sinatra’s character is really adorable in this, and glad to see more of Betty Garrett. Perhaps not a favorite, but I quite enjoyed it.


Summer Stock (Charles Walters, 1950) - This plot really hooked into me right from the beginning, and I thought Judy Garland and Gene Kelly were terrific here. I think the final musical numbers could’ve been a bit better, but I was so knocked away by most everything here, that it was already among my favorites way before then.

Two Weeks with Love (Roy Rowland, 1950) - I thought this was a really charming film about growing up, and different perspectives between parents and kids and social expectations. The musical numbers don’t really wow like other musicals, but they nicely augment the interesting and well told story here. I don’t really think it needed Ricardo Montalban offering a future marriage at the end, but its such a quick and offhanded remark that it didn’t do much to hurt this delightful film.

The West Point Story (Roy Del Ruth, 1950) - I take it this isn’t more well known because of Cagney’s weird performance or something? I have strange reactions to acting, but I pretty much loved this, and thought there were lots of excellent dancing scenes here. I thought James Cagney and Doris Day had such wonderful chemistry when they were scheming together, I wish there were a whole slew of buddy movies with those two. Maybe not a favorite, but I thought this was surprisingly good from what I was expecting.

Awaara (Raj Kapoor, 1951) - Raj Kapoor has a really magnetic screen presence, and the story and music pretty much had me dragged in the whole way. I thought this was pretty great.



Two Tickets to Broadway (James V. Kern, 1951) - For the most part this was really enjoyable, and had some great dance numbers. The plot of rehearsing a performance that may or may not happen, didn’t quite hook me in for the whole runtime, so I can’t say it was a favorite, but it was solidly entertaining.

I Love Melvin (Don Weis, 1953) - Unfortunately I can’t share the same enthusiasm for this that some others around here have expressed. There’s a lot of great elements here and some really fun musical numbers, but the story really fell flat for me and didn’t sustain much interest. The film is fairly short though, so it doesn’t really do too much damage, but I can’t quite put this up with my other favorite musicals.



Kiss Me Kate (George Sidney, 1953) - I thought parts of the film taking place outside and around the play were by far the strongest, and there was a lot here that was terrific. I’m not sure how well I liked the transition between the modern musical moments and the Shakespeare play, quite as much, but for the most part it worked pretty well.

Lili (Charles Walters, 1953) - Well I thought this film was completely delightful, and easily one of my favorite things I’ve watched for this list. Its musical status is a bit questionable for me though, but the end dream sequence does help its musical sensibilities a lot. Really glad to have seen this film, but for these lists I usually try to factor in how much of an exemplar of the genre it is, so when we get around to the second iteration of the musical list, I’ll have to do a bit more soul searching to figure out where I’ll place it.

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Re: The Musicals List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Proj

#547 Post by domino harvey » Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:31 pm

Oscar Levant has some great throwaway lines here, are there any other films where he plays such great side characters besides the obvious stuff like An American in Paris and The Band Wagon?
Well, first, avoid the Barkelys of Broadway. You've already seen his best work, but he's memorable as the lead in the (not especially good) Hawks segment of O Henry's Full House, and of course there's also Humoresque. And Wikipedia tells me he was the inspiration for Henry Orient in the novel the World of Henry Orient, which Sellers did not channel in the (excellent) film adaptation!

If you're struggling with Lili as a musical (don't listen to the naysayers in this thread), I strongly recommend you check out Jane Feuer's book on Musicals, the Hollywood Musical, as she uses the film as an exemplar of how spectatorship works and is exploited in musicals and draws parallels between the film and the career of Judy Garland, along with examining the film's brilliant use of the dream ballet and its function in this and other musicals

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Re: The Musicals List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Proj

#548 Post by YnEoS » Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:49 pm

Thanks! I plan on doing a bit of reading up on musicals, now that I'm more familiar with the films and actors, so I'll add that one to my reading list.

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domino harvey
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Re: The Musicals List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Proj

#549 Post by domino harvey » Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:03 pm

Make sure Altman's book is at the top of your stack!

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Re: The Musicals List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Proj

#550 Post by zedz » Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:54 pm

YnEoS wrote:Broadway Melody of 1936 (Roy Del Ruth, W.S. Van Dyke, 1935) - I had no idea who Eleanor Powell was before seeing this film, at first I thought it was quite enjoyable and amusing, but I was absolutely blown away by the dancing. Added a lot more Eleanor Powell films to my watch list after this one.
Powell didn't have much range as an actor (though she's a pleasant enough screen presence), but my god could she dance. She's electrifying in every number I've ever seen her in. She had a very short film career, and I don't know that any of her films are classics in their own right (her numbers are reliably orders of magnitude better than anything else in the film), but she's nevertheless a major figure in the American film musical.

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