Auteur List: Woody Allen - Discussion and Defenses

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Rayon Vert
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Re: Auteur List: Woody Allen - Discussion and Defenses

#126 Post by Rayon Vert » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:44 pm

Re: Midnight in Paris. I'm not going to rewatch this but my take on it (looking at my original viewing notes) was also that the cinematography was wonderful, the actors were good and that it was a somewhat charming, definitely better film than most of his work since the mid-90s. But at the same time I was disappointed that Allen focused on such insubstantial themes. I didn't think there was much originality here, beyond the rather hackneyed motif that is the center of the film, and the laughs weren't that many either (though, granted, it wasn't meant to be a barrage of laughs as Whatever Works was). So that it felt that Allen, even at his best in the last two decades, was nothing like the Allen of olde (Match Point excepted). It’s competent from beginning to end but not that much more than that and to me it belongs somewhere right in the middle of his output grade-wise.

Dark Stranger I would rate a little lower but as far from terrible and not anywhere as embarrassing or dully mediocre as many of the films he made in the decade prior. I thought it featured some sharp writing and overall good execution and strong performances. But it ended up being entertaining without being particularly memorable, and it is marred by an an erratic last third or quarter, leaving one less satisfied in the conclusion than in the set-up.

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Re: Auteur List: Woody Allen - Discussion and Defenses

#127 Post by AWA » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:05 am

To Rome With Love is not without it's pleasures and some laughs, but it is a minor work without much to say.

Competently made with Khondji back behind the camera (the photography is easily the most consistently great aspect of the film), a strong cast of capable actors for their roles (although Ellen Page and Greta Gerwig desperately needed to switch roles, badly) the problem again lies in Woody's writing. Woody previously has said feature films consisting of several shorts don't often work - look no further than New York Stories and his own Everything You've Always Wanted To Know... for some examples. Four separate shorts that don't interact with each other, 2 of them decent and 2 flawed.

The most developed is the Alec Baldwin one. While clumsily introduced to each other, John and Jack meet randomly walking in Rome and quickly Woody dispenses with the artifice of trying to play it straight. Baldwin's character is clearly the older version of Jesse Eisenberg's character, giving him advice not to make a mistake of falling in love with his girlfriend's visiting friend. A novel concept, once the awkward beginning of this story is out of the way, some interesting bits happen and he plays with the reality of the visitor from the future concept here and there (sometimes everyone can see / hear him, other times not). This is likely the discarded "time travel" element from Anything Else recycled here as a short, although it could very easily be ironed out and developed into a feature all its own (and, knowing Woody, maybe one day it will). This element distinctly recalls Play It Again, Sam as well - but not nearly as successful or funny.

The Roberto Benigni segment of a average middle class man becoming famous for the sake of being famous is a play on modern western culture's empty celebrity obsession. Again, perhaps something more could be said about this topic if explored in depth over the course of a feature, but here it hits a few notes and that's just about it. Benigni is, as always, very funny - he's just funny to watch and hear, a classic comedian whose timing and expressions just exude great comedy.

Penelope Cruz returns to a Woody film playing a hooker dropping in on the wrong hotel room as a young man prepares for an important business meeting after his young wife goes out but gets lost on the streets of Rome. Despite everyone having cell phones in this film, no one apparently has data to use their GPS map apps on their phone which would've made this and the next short segment impossible as it is harder to get lost when you have an iPhone? :-k The two best parts of this story are easily
SpoilerShow
the initial scene of Cruz and the young Italian falling into bed as he tries desperately to convince her that she has the wrong man - only to have the business associates walk in on him at that moment, and he quickly tries to save face by claiming Cruz's character is in fact his wife. After that, a funny little bit at a business party whereby most of the men at the party are secretly clients of her. Small laughs, but laughs none the less.
The other story involves what could very likely be the last ever feature film screen appearance of Woody (he did appear later in the Crisis In Six Scenes TV streaming series) and Judy Davis surprisingly shows up again. While she is not given much to work with, she still works well with Woody's dialogue and situations. Woody himself can still land some quick lines like few others can, and for that it is still nice to see this, but outside of that the one note joke of a mortician who can only sing opera note perfectly in the shower runs out of road well before the story concludes. Having no place left to go, it is wrapped up neatly and tidily without having achieved very much. The concept of the story - an opera singer who has to sing and perform on stage in a shower - certainly recalls the "early funny films" but could use a much more absurd surroundings and some broader comedy to help it along. It is hindered greatly by everything outside of the shower opera performances being played like a more typical post-Annie Hall Woody film than a pre-AH one. The ridiculousness of a tuxedo crowd giving a standing ovation to someone having to sing and act naked in a shower box on stage amongst a period piece opera set called for something much more broad for the rest of that segment.

All four segments are edited interwoven and aren't separated by titles, which in doing so allows for the more successful stories and scenes to keep the others afloat instead of having us watch one story from beginning to end (like in EYAWTKAS, which, once you entered a story that didn't have much going for it, dragged the whole viewing experience down with it and the following segment had to work to build your interest back up again). As a result, it is very minor but enjoyable enough with some laughs paced well throughout. Certainly not going to make my list and would slot in just above the "Worst" list for me.

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Re: Auteur List: Woody Allen - Discussion and Defenses

#128 Post by domino harvey » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:15 pm

GoodOldNeon wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:38 pm
Could someone also comment on The Woody Allen Special (1969)? A segment from it titled Cupid's Shaft is now listed on Letterboxd as a short film directed by Allen, yet the Special itself is listed on IMDB as being directed by Alan Handley. So is Cupid's Shaft part of the Allen directorial filmography, or is it just a Letterboxd oddity?
You can watch Cupid's Shaft here. There are no credits, and IMDB doesn't agree, so I'm going to say it's not a Woody Allen film unless someone can offer up an admission from Allen in an interview or something. The short's pretty funny (I especially liked the gag with Allen's response to seeing Candice Bergen get assaulted), but boy that laugh track is terrible (and the music is synchronized to the action and is part of one of the jokes, so you can't really watch it Langlois-style)

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Re: Auteur List: Woody Allen - Discussion and Defenses

#129 Post by Rayon Vert » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:35 pm

Another Woman. The Arrow blu for this film was welcome because I remember finding the DVD fairly lacking, and its beauty is one of its strengths. I like Another Woman well enough but I don’t love it. I’m having difficulty knowing and articulating exactly why but I think perhaps part of it is that the film’s themes (regret, self-deception, self-knowledge) are spelled out quite clearly and explicitly so that there isn’t a strong feeling of revelation as the film progresses. And even though Rowlands does her best with her, maybe another thing is I don’t find Marion that appealing of a character, which is possibly a connected point. She’s a very contained, self-possessed person but, even though she goes through an arc of sorts, at film’s end she still comes across as essentially that same composed person. It feels like the character’s dominant quality affects the entire tone of the film. In one way I like the film’s quietness, in another way it feels a little too sedate for its own good.

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Re: Auteur List: Woody Allen - Discussion and Defenses

#130 Post by Lemmy Caution » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:35 am

Mighty Aphrodite (1995). I recall this getting a fair amount of praise and being hailed as a return to form for Allen, who had arguably slumped after a fairly strong run in the 80's. I didn't get much out of it and it feels entirely forgettable. The Greek Chorus is the only new addition to what is otherwise a fairly typical Woody Allen NY relationship film with quips. The setting in Greek theater ruins in Sicily is quite nice, the costumes are good, and the chorus and Greek tragedy figures are a decent diversion, often seeming about to add something to the film, which they essentially don't. And Woody Allen keeps trying to derive humor from the Greek chorus using modern colloquial language and finally singing and dancing.

Okay, I guess. But unfortunately that was about the best part of the film. All the relationships and characters feel extremely phony. Woody is a sportswriter, which means that we see occasionally him in various athletic settings engaging in zero journalism. Helena Bonham Carter seems terribly miscast or just bad as his wife. She's supposedly an art gallery director, so we slightly glimpse some generic, barely suggested art galleries. But they are upper middle-class and unworried about money. Oddly we hear about 3 or 4 times how smart Woody Allen's character is.

The portrayal of women is rather unflattering. The wife is rather shrewish and cranky. Mira Sorvino plays a dumb hooker with a heart of gold. Seems she got a lot of praise for this limited phony squeaky-voiced role. All the relationships come across as forced and false, even the affair Bonham Carter's character nearly has which is supposed to be passionate. Something real perfunctory about all the characters and roles and relationships. As though Woody Allen has done this so many times he can't even be bothered to flesh any of it out. Case in point, a healthy day-old baby is immediately ready for adoption to a couple who has done nothing to prepare or go through any procedures, but only if they act immediately. Huh?

There are a few good jokes here and there. Woody not wanting to adopt because he has award-winning genes -- a joke in the opening scene which will actually echo nicely with the (somewhat schmaltzy) end of the film. Choosing a baby name, Woody ponders Ben Weinrib and concludes it sounds like a "gin rummy champion." I'm not terribly sure what that it means, but it's a funny random association. But overall it's not that funny, or interesting or good. Basically the greek chorus pads things out and makes the film seem more creative and intelligent than it actually is. I didn't actually dislike MA so much as feel I was forgetting about it even as it was still running.

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Re: Auteur List: Woody Allen - Discussion and Defenses

#131 Post by dustybooks » Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:58 pm

I like Mira Sorvino’s performance a lot; it isn’t a very well written or conceived part but she wins me over completely with her odd, off-kilter energy. I guess overall I find MA charming and I have a lot of goodwill toward it, but it’s a big step down from most of his work in the first half of the decade.

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Re: Auteur List: Woody Allen - Discussion and Defenses

#132 Post by Lemmy Caution » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:53 pm

I quite liked Blue Jasmine (2013). I need to re-watch a number of his 21st C films, but this is probably my favorite Woody Allen film of the past 15 or 20 years.

It benefits from not having Woody Allen acting or any Woody Allen surrogate. The characters and situations feel fresh and not retreads. The theme put me in mind of A Streetcar Named Desire, though here the Blanche(tt) character is more in control, though her grip is slipping. The casting and acting is quite strong. I especially liked Cannavale as working-class Chili.
Also, it finishes on a sad/dark note unlike the not very convincing upbeat/happy ending of Mighty Aphrodite.

The film looks terrific, doesn't take shortcuts (well, maybe the lottery winnings, but that's a small matter), engages with its characters, doesn't feel padded out. It just feels like Woody Allen really engaged here and created a world and situations while eschewing the quips and really creating a work of art. I could definitely see this making the lower rungs of my Top 10. It's nice to see that in 2013 Woody Allen was capable of making a film this strong and solid.

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Re: Auteur List: Woody Allen - Discussion and Defenses

#133 Post by Rayon Vert » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:13 pm

Mighty Aphrodite. I’m closer to dustybrooks than Lemmy on this one. It definitely is uneven. There’s a scene where Lenny decides to steal into the adoption agency office to find the identity of his son’s mother where Allen goes into a bumbling physical comedy routine and I just groaned inside watching this again, thinking how lacking and unfunny this was in comparison to the exact same sort of thing he was doing twenty years earlier. But then not too long after there’s another scene where Lenny is getting a phone call revealing to him the mother’s current name, and a Chorus figure is there with him telling him how wrong this is, but a second later silently gives him the pencil and holds the paper to help him write down the information. So there’s a mix of the stale and the sharp and funny here, but it tends to be more comically successful and charming than not. Linda is a cartoon character but a unique, sweet one, that Sorvino brings to life wonderfully. I was struck also at how Lenny is one of Allen’s generally more likeable onscreen alter egos (although not quite a Danny Rose), even though his motivations are primarily selfish as usual. And the Green Chorus adds an original, pleasing dimension as well. It’s one of the few keepers for me from this decade, even though it’s a minor, not always consistent work.

(The French blu ray is quite serviceable but it forces French subtitles on you when you want to listen to the original English audio.)

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Re: Auteur List: Woody Allen - Discussion and Defenses

#134 Post by AWA » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:00 am

Some thoughts regarding Mighty Aphrodite, which I've touched on briefly in other postings here. In my chronological re-viewing of Woody's film, the film that has perhaps fallen the most in my overall ranking is MA. I hadn't watched it in years and my memories of it were a fun and solid film from the post-MiaFarrowFallout period that was fairly consistent in putting out good, mid-range films.

However, watching everything in chronological order, when I got to viewing MA it really stood out to me as the point where new Woody Allen films started to be made in his own cultural shadow of all that had come before it. It is the first film when a character who is *not* playing the "Woody Allen" character *acts like the cliched caricature of Woody Allen* (in this case Helen Bonham Carter) simply because they think that's how *all* people are in "A Woody Allen Film". One could argue that Woody himself is even guilty of this for the first time - his character just seems like a fill in the blanks sort of template of characters he had played before in Manhattan Murder Mystery, Hannah & Her Sisters, Manhattan, etc.

The Greek Chorus is the one aspect of the film that makes it stand out - it plays with the narrative structure and sometimes it's more successful (eg the telephone call scene that Rayon Vert mentioned) than other times (eg the Chorus getting forwarded to Zeus' answering machine). Which is early shades of Woody not polishing his scripts. He was still close enough to his prime years were he could get away with it but it would become a problem gradually over time when his skills as a writer began to fall into routine rather than out of inspirational need (2000's+) and not being surrounded with anyone to tell him otherwise (2010's).

Seeing as this was the first film truly written produced after the outcome of the bitter custody battle with Mia Farrow (and the theme of wondering what great attributes your adopted child has gained from their biological parents is clearly inspired by his own experiences watching Mia raise many adopted children, including two that he signed on to be a father for), one also has to conclude that Woody's self proclaimed (and often noted by all those working with him, friends, family, etc) ability to "compartmentalize" his feelings and the impact such extreme experiences had on him are not nearly as strong as Woody and others around him suggest they might be. It might appear that way on the surface but numerous clues in his writing show us that's just not so. In addition to all the structural problems his writing began having after that point, the reoccurring themes of remorse and regret for how that situation was handled and what he lost forever in it are noteworthy - for instance, the estranged son / off-spring becomes a reoccurring theme, even in a minor work like Hollywood Ending, in which Woody literally tells us in his script losing his son forever is the deep psychological trauma root of his artistic downturn and his problems as a filmmaker. Mighty Aphrodite is the beginning of such similar and related themes and it is no coincidence that it is the first film to follow the custody battle and ending of his relationship with Mia and the three children he parented with her.

I often wonder if having someone like Douglas McGrath return to co-write something with him would do him a world of good - someone to answer to, someone to polish, revise and edit a script, to get more than one draft done, to suggest and spur other ideas out of him. He is still Woody and on occasion he can churn out a Blue Jasmine right out of the typewriter. But most of the time now we can expect flawed first drafts like Wonder Wheel. I still look forward to what comes next either way though as he's proven the occasional gems that can pass muster without editing are well worth waiting for.

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Re: Auteur List: Woody Allen - Discussion and Defenses

#135 Post by Lemmy Caution » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:27 am

If you want to bring in his personal life*, in MA Woody has his difficult, controlling, argumentative, unfaithful wife rush him into an adoption he doesn't want to be part of. Despite being steamrolled into it, it works out because he's a good father and likes the kid. Hoo-boy! Surprised he didn't name the film Mighty Is Aphrodite, giving it the acronym MIA.

* (and why not, Woody Allen frequently makes fairly autobiographical films starring himself as a version of himself)

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Re: Auteur List: Woody Allen - Discussion and Defenses

#136 Post by Mr Sausage » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:34 am

Broadway Danny Rose is the current discussion topic at the Film Club. Come over and share your thoughts. A small capsule reaction, a Sloper-like dissertation, anything's welcome.

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Re: Auteur List: Woody Allen - Discussion and Defenses

#137 Post by Lemmy Caution » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:49 pm

Whatever Works (2009).
It's really hard to figure out who the audience would be for this film.
Larry David's main character is so unpleasant and negative. And you wonder how he could get away insulting people to their face over and over, without frequently getting punched in the face. I also wished he's put some pants on.

The role of women again stands out in this film. A teenage runaway needs help and a reluctant old grumpy misanthrope takes her in and she falls in love with him as he belittles her, insulting her looks and intelligence. Yikes*. Then when her mother tracks her down to rescue her, religious conservative Mom transforms from a Christian from the heartland into a sexually liberated urbanite happily involved in a menage a trois. Another woman gets crushed by a suicide jumper and falls in love with him after her broken bones heals. All this seems like rather creepy male fantasy stuff.

Probably the most tiresome part is how often we here that Larry David's character is a genius. Or maybe it's the gay subplot tossed in late. But really Woody Allen shows extremely limited interest in these characters. The mother's role has the distinction of being the worst in the film, a real cringeworthy role from start to finish. Oddly even NYC is barely there despite it ostensibly being a very NYC film. And the phony happy ending grates.

Whatever Works seemed somewhat like a mashup of Deconstructing Harry (Deconstructing Larry?) and Mighty Aphrodite. A pessimistic lead character gets an unexpected love interest -- a dumb looker who falls for him for a while. Breaking the 4th wall takes the place of the Greek chorus, etc. Or maybe it's just due to what I've rewatched recently. My Woody Allen reviewings have jumped around a fair amount based on which discs I've found. For some reason the motherlode of Woody Allen discs continues to elude me. I used to know exactly where they were before the cats started knocking them out of the cabinet and I put them somewhere. I generally know where things are before I put things away properly.

Anyway, I can't imagine this making anybody's list. I think I'll also submit a Bottom 5 list of Woody Allen films, just so this re-watch won't have been in vain.
________________________________________________________________

* I do remember reading a Woody Allen interview from likely around this time in which he refers to Soon Yi's friends as being a bunch of vacuous twits. And you sure hope he wasn't dealing with her the way this film portrays a Spring-Winter relationship, or even thinking such unpleasantness.
Last edited by Lemmy Caution on Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Auteur List: Woody Allen - Discussion and Defenses

#138 Post by domino harvey » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:55 pm

Have you seen that fly on the wall doc on Allen and Soon-Yi Previn from a few years back? They by all appearances there are a good mutual fit for each other

I have to confess I’m still bewildered at when Whatever Works became the default worst Allen film— did I miss the memo? I remember seeing this several times in the theatre because friends wanted to see it and everyone, Allen fans and newbies, thoroughly enjoyed it. I don’t think it’s great and it won’t make my list, but I will die on the hill of it being at least a good movie

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Re: Auteur List: Woody Allen - Discussion and Defenses

#139 Post by swo17 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:02 pm

That's what you get for having friends

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Re: Auteur List: Woody Allen - Discussion and Defenses

#140 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:03 pm

Part of my resentment of it centers around Larry David, who is not an actor with a ton of range to begin with, and Allen's choice to drain him of any of the personality traits that make him appealing on Curb Your Enthusiasm and in interviews, etc. His character is genuinely unpleasant to spend time with for 92 minutes - I ended up wishing he'd just tried to do an Allen impression like everyone else does

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Re: Auteur List: Woody Allen - Discussion and Defenses

#141 Post by Lemmy Caution » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:07 pm

WW is probably not his worst film. But likely Bottom 5.
I need to rewatch a bunch, but I seem to remember that Small Time Crooks was actually terrible.

I've really had limited to no exposure to Larry David. Never saw Curb Your Enthusiasm. At the time I first saw Whatever Works, I just knew Larry David was popular and acerbic and seemed like a good choice for a Woody Allen film.

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Re: Auteur List: Woody Allen - Discussion and Defenses

#142 Post by knives » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:38 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:55 pm
Have you seen that fly on the wall doc on Allen and Soon-Yi Previn from a few years back? They by all appearances there are a good mutual fit for each other

I have to confess I’m still bewildered at when Whatever Works became the default worst Allen film— did I miss the memo? I remember seeing this several times in the theatre because friends wanted to see it and everyone, Allen fans and newbies, thoroughly enjoyed it. I don’t think it’s great and it won’t make my list, but I will die on the hill of it being at least a good movie
I'll die on that hill with you. Then again I don't understand any of the this character is too unpleasant stuff for any of his films that have gotten that so far. Honestly outside of Tiger Lilly, Anything Else, and Everything You Wanted to Know I'd argue every one of his films as a director is at worst okay.

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Re: Auteur List: Woody Allen - Discussion and Defenses

#143 Post by Rayon Vert » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:51 pm

IMDB would agree with you as none of his films go under 6.0

I'm with the crowd that thinks Whatever Works doesn't rank among his worst. It gets worse rather than better as it goes along, which doesn't help it, but it does have quite a few laughs, which not every comedy of his can boast. I also remember having a friend who found it uproariously funny when it came out.

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Re: Auteur List: Woody Allen - Discussion and Defenses

#144 Post by AWA » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:51 am

Blue Jasmine is a film I've revisited several times since it was released in 2013, easily more than any film Woody has made since 1999. Rewatching it tonight again, and in chronological context, it holds up as one of his very best work. For some it might be be fashionable to say so, but this will get into the Top 10 for me. And despite the many issues I have with his 2000-present output sans a handful of good / great / excellent films in that time frame, this really is a great work by a great artist who finally was spurred by actual events in his life to create a layered and complex portrait of emotional trauma. This could've been made by Woody in the late 80's / early 90's quite easily. And that's a very big compliment considering.

Cate Blanchett's acting in this has been very deservedly praised - what doesn't get mentioned often enough is that she did by doing a spot on impression of Judy Davis' Sally character from Husbands & Wives (and, to a slightly lesser degree, Judy Davis' other roles in Woody films - Alice, Deconstructing Harry and Celebrity). Had this been shot 10 or 15 years earlier, it definitely would've starred Judy Davis in the lead role. It is especially prominent in her speech affectations (for one clear example in the diner scene where she is babysitting her sister's children and gives an extensive rambling monologue to them about Hal). Blanchett adds to the character as needed and perfectly lands the moments where Jasmine can seemingly internally hear her own mind sabotaging itself. The scene where she meets Dwight and they talk alone on the patio and begin to establish a rapport, he asks her about her past and she pauses before starting a lie that she knows will eventually sabotage anything that might come of this. She plays that beat perfectly as the camera holds on a close up waiting for her to try and say the right thing, just enough time for the viewer to realize that she is thinking of trying to hide it, then knowing that's exactly what she's thinking of doing and then that's exactly when she comes in with the lie. Small moment but very key in the film and for her character. Perfect.

Blanchett's performance overshadows other great turns by Sally Hawkins (returning to a Woody film after being, for me, the breath of fresh air in Cassandra's Dream in her small but authentic role). Woody (and the many acting talents who work with him) always note that his direction is always to change his dialogue as needed for a character or scene to make it more comfortable. Aside from Scarlett Johansson, I haven't read of too many actors who said that they did change some of his lines in the past two decades (and, clearly, a lot more of them should've taken that liberty), but I would venture to guess that Hawkins has (her little muttering asides here and there are a nice touch). Her story worked well as playing on the same theme underneath Jasmine's own larger story of delusion on a bigger scale with higher stakes - with Ginger, you believed that she had met someone worthwhile and how, despite denying before that Chili wasn't a bad choice at all, she was quick to throw it all away at the first offer of a seemingly better prospect. Ginger had accused her sister of looking the other way if it was something she didn't want to believe and turning her back on reality and the people that mattered around her - and yet she did the same, as most / many people would do / have done. She settles back with Chili and suddenly she rewrites the truth of their relationship again. She does a great job in her role and gives a sincere turn as a kind hearted, trusting guileless woman trying to better herself in a modest way. Her dramatic scene is at a dock with a flip phone - and it is beautifully and convincingly done. Woody's films have (or had) been celebrated for writing great female characters (although some examples noted here in the past two decades have prompted some critics to suggest otherwise) and this is a prime example of why he deserves that credit.

Alec Baldwin is also excellent in his well cast role. Andrew Dice Clay, Bobby Cannavale, Louis CK both turn in good performances as different types of sketchy people (although a nice turn on how the Al character appears nice and caring and a character like Augie comes off as a rough bad choice, but Augie turns out to be a much better man than Al is. Michael Stuhlbarg's dark comic relief as the creepy predatory dentist Dr Flicker is fantastic and Stuhlbarg being cast as a lead in a future Woody comedy of some kind is tops on my wish list (in fact, let's have an entire film about Dr Flicker's dentistry, please? :lol: )

Production wise, stedi-cam replaces the usual Woody Allen dolly / pan / tilt / zoom style to shoot the long master shots (which there are fewer of here, lots of over the shoulder cutaways, but successful). Javier Aguirresarobe's photography is an improvement on his previous collaboration with Woody on Vicky Cristina Barcelona but I can't help but wish Khondji shot this instead. But maybe some of the acting performances were constructed in editing (which was also some of Lepselter's best work so far)?

While there are some small details that this is still an early draft of some kind (probably the most notable being the fact that Augie and Ginger's money came from lottery winnings... that could've been worked out differently that added more dramatic weight to the situation, but it gets a pass because it doesn't weigh it down too much), the many layers of writing give this far more depth than much of what he'd written since the 1990's. After reading him say so many times the Eric Lax Conversations... book that each drama he'd made could be written better by him today because he would know how to do it better... and then seeing him doing Cassandra's Dream... it is nice to see him take his own advice for once. Some of the funny (albeit often very darkly so) moments really helped. It is partially structured around A Streetcar Named Desire (the odd but fitting music selections are heavy on the New Orleans material, more so than most any other Woody film, a clear cue for me that he was acknowledging the Streetcar influence to anyone sharp enough to catch it) - which, coincidentally, often helps Woody when he uses a film or book that influenced him to structure his story around, like An American Tragedy did for Match Point eight years prior. Woody's usual struggles for writing for the 21st Century working class characters (which he has an exceptionally hard time relating to, usually depicting them with either pity or contempt or a mix of both in the 2000's / 2010's) still shows up but not as pronounced (Woody's idea of workaday San Francisco is... New Jersey apparently? Allegedly this was written into the film as there was a standing offer to finance production if he shot a film in SanFran and he was self financing production at the time so... Jersey clearly got written into being SanFran). Ginger's apartment is amazing - yet we are introduced to it as Jasmine walks in and a slow pan around the room is to inform us that this is supposed to be some kind of dump (like in Whatever Works where everyone keeps remarking about the "hole" of an apartment Boris lives in that is actually really awesome - thank you, production designer Santo Loquasto - and in Manhattan would cost a fortune to keep). And Ginger holds that place down and raising two kids part time while bagging groceries for a living? Maybe in 1973 but not in 2013.

But the other written layer(s) are that there is *extensive* personal stuff here. Pardon me while I go down a rabbit hole in my review here but it shouts out at me so many times throughout this film and, watching all of his films in chronological order, that shouting was extra loud as you had to look very carefully to find "clues" of his personal writing in his films from the 2000-2012 period, it made this one very, very pronounced as a result. Some critics did pick up on the comparison of Jasmine as Mia Farrow in her reaction to finding out about Woody and Soon Yi's affair - the fact that he stages that scene of confronting her husband about an affair he has been having with a "teenager" - who then volleys back that not only does he admit the affair but he's in love with her... *and* is "making plans for the future" with her... and all of this taking place in the film in front of the mantle is quite something (it is, in Woody's actual home, where Mia found the polaroids. And for anyone reading this that doesn't know, Soon Yi was 21 when the affair started, not a teenager, but still...). Hal flirts with (and gets permission to from Jasmine) take his young gym trainer to a baseball game (Woody and Soon Yi went to a basketball game at Mia's own suggestion). Jasmine confronts Hal about being seen holding hands in public, which Hal retorts "if I was gonna do that, would I do it in public?" (Woody himself *was* caught doing that in public in his "front row seats", all the time Mia turning a blind eye to what was happening and what their relationship had long become). The lawyer character Hal has an affair is asian (who is just dropped in there for a brief introductory scene and absolutely nothing else and no other reason). And while clearly the Jasmine character's oscillating descent in narcissistic, delusional, self destructive, neurotic madness definitely has some root in Mia, interestingly at the same time that character also at times represents **Woody** himself and his own (extensive) denial and private regrets. In interviews for the film Woody admitted it was based on a woman who "lost it all" and had a mental breakdown that Soon Yi and Woody knew. There aren't too many times Woody has admitted one of his scripts is based on someone he know / knew in his life, so that's mighty telling.

Add on top of all of the above (and more) that you could *also* see this as partially being in part about his former producer / backer Jean Doumanian and her fall from grace / wealth and totally destroyed her friendship and working relationship with Woody by cheating him out of millions, forcing him to sue (and, perhaps most importantly, gradually firing everyone of his core production crew that he worked with throughout his prime years in the late 70's through the early 90's). Woody's own personal extensive delusion and denial about relationships is well represented in Jasmine's eagerness to "look the other way" - in addition to Woody refusing to admit his relationship with Mia was over, he kept digging himself deeper and deeper into it in the late 80's for no other reason than to preserve routine in his life, turning a blind eye to Mia's parenting, psychological problems, etc. And it blew up in one of the most spectacular tabloid explosions of the late 20th Century. And you'd think he'd learn from that but he did the exact same thing with his business relationship with Jean Doumanian in the years immediately following the Mia Breakup - turning a willful blind eye to her destroying his working relationships, shady financial dealings, bad advice, personal manipulation, etc etc etc all in the name of preserving a routine without having to deal with the ugly reality and coming and inevitable consequences.

Once again the theme of the estranged son returns as Jasmine loses Hal's son Danny's trust and love after Hal's arrest. Danny later admits he later learned how "it all really happened" (which is immediately followed by the flashback to the confrontation about the affair with the teenager in front of the mantle) and has totally disowned Jasmine forever in his life. The stunning devastation of Jasmine tells us plenty that, even at the point where his own son Satchel/Ronan had become a public figure (and used that opportunity to throw digital and print darts at his father on his mother's behalf) that was openly disdainful of Woody, he shows great remorse and regret for how it played out and what he lost. To go further down the autobiographical rabbit hole, I can't also help but wonder if there is a possibility that this *is* an old script he wrote back in the 90's after Husbands & Wives / MiaBreakup and *was* written for Judy Davis to star in... and he didn't shoot it because it was all too much for the time and just updated some of the mechanics of it to hang the breakdown of her marriage around the 2008 Great Recession financial meltdown. It is the first film to really and truly deal with that situation head on - with possibly the exception of Deconstructing Harry (a film made to skewer Philip Roth, whom Mia was dating at the time, but never gets too deep or direct into the Mia Breakup Fallout). A long shot theory perhaps but there is a helluva lot going on here in this film.

Recalling Mighty Aphrodite's theme of adopted children and what personal attributes are gained genetically, there is also quite a bit going on in this film about adopted children. Jasmine and Ginger are sisters who were both adopted and both talk about each other's genetic heritage and wondering who got the "best genes" (perhaps suggesting that Jasmine is unknowingly genetically predisposed to mental health issues without knowing it in the process). Hal's son is also adopted and uses that as an emotional weapon against Jasmine (and his father upon his arrest and public humiliation). A lot of parallels to be drawn there with regards to the Farrow family(s).

The clear autobiographical elements of this film, and the obvious basis of making a characterization of Mia's mental state seemed to have also prompted the Farrow family to launch a social media campaign against him. The Farrows only seem to make noise when Woody's films get good reviews and press, but this one was even more so - the ridiculous Orth "follow up" Vanity Fair article (in which Mia made the ludicrous lie of Ronan possibly being Sinatra's son coupled with Dylan reasserting her allegation) then with synchronized attack tweets by Ronan and Mia on the night of Woody getting honoured by the Golden Globes). Allegedly / apparently / supposedly, *before* this film was made Woody and Soon Yi had talked with Mia on the phone after Lark Previn's death in 2008. They called to express their condolences and supposedly were able to have a cordial but brief conversation. And not too long afterwards... this film gets made, as though the briefest contact with Mia spurned her usual reaction and nothing much had truly changed (?). You can't help but wonder if this, with those themes and the fact that it got rave reviews to boot, stung a little bit harder for them.

Sadly, that's partly where the fuel to make a much brighter fire comes from - he finally wrote a personal story again and was addressing some issues that mattered to him in his life. It had been sometime since we'd seen much of that - likely Celebrity being the last film that one could argue was an overtly "personal film" (Deconstructing Harry being the last successful one, IMO) from him (with smaller bits tossed around much more minor stories throughout the subsequent years). All of this makes for a great film with a LOT of motivation behind the writing, something severely lacking in most films from the DreamWorks period onwards. Also: I hope there is an award for longest posting in these forums?

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Lemmy Caution
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Re: Auteur List: Woody Allen - Discussion and Defenses

#145 Post by Lemmy Caution » Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:07 pm

Rayon Vert wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:51 pm
I'm with the crowd that thinks Whatever Works doesn't rank among his worst. It gets worse rather than better as it goes along, which doesn't help it, but it does have quite a few laughs, which not every comedy of his can boast. I also remember having a friend who found it uproariously funny when it came out.
I thought the first 20 plus minutes of Whatever Works were pretty awful. Larry David plays an aggressively unpleasant misanthrope. He even looks unpleasant in his ugly clothes, bandy legs and exaggerated limp. Then this cute young thing forces herself upon him. Have to admit I was ready to check out until the film leveled off from its steep dive into awfulness. It goes downhill again when the mother then father enter.

I absolutely cannot recall one line or bit of humor in the film. I guess the gay conversion is supposed to be humorous. The southern religious mother and then father are some of the worst written characters Woody Allen has ever conceived. All the character introductions are terrible.

Another thing that irritated me was how many times Boris was called a "genius" and I kept waiting for him to be taken down a peg, or shown as mistaken, but throughout the film it seems as though he is genuinely viewed as a super-smart guy who has figured out an unassailable life philosophy. Sure he's suicidal, which is also played for (non-existent) laughs, but the film essentially presents his depression as a reasonable response given his worldview. I kept expecting maybe we'd see some example of his genius, but instead were just endlessly told about it. If it was played as straight as it came across to me, this sort of thinking that someone who was brilliant at quantum mechanics is a superior intellect that can understand life, is the kind of misguided thinking that gets a billionaire celebrity elected president, because someone good at making money must know how to run the government.

Maybe I was just too turned off to the film to see how Woody Allen subverts the Boris character. But even at the very end, Boris claims to have special knowledge that only a genius possesses. Thinking back on the film, I like it less and less.

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domino harvey
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Re: Auteur List: Woody Allen - Discussion and Defenses

#146 Post by domino harvey » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:20 pm

Reminder that Lemmy doesn’t think the “steamed hams” scene of the Simpsons is funny either

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Re: Auteur List: Woody Allen - Discussion and Defenses

#147 Post by knives » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:46 pm

Lemmy Caution wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:07 pm
Maybe I was just too turned off to the film to see how Woody Allen subverts the Boris character. But even at the very end, Boris claims to have special knowledge that only a genius possesses. Thinking back on the film, I like it less and less.
Why should the film subvert Boris?

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mfunk9786
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Re: Auteur List: Woody Allen - Discussion and Defenses

#148 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:10 pm

Lemmy Caution wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:07 pm
Rayon Vert wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:51 pm
I'm with the crowd that thinks Whatever Works doesn't rank among his worst. It gets worse rather than better as it goes along, which doesn't help it, but it does have quite a few laughs, which not every comedy of his can boast. I also remember having a friend who found it uproariously funny when it came out.
I thought the first 20 plus minutes of Whatever Works were pretty awful. Larry David plays an aggressively unpleasant misanthrope. He even looks unpleasant in his ugly clothes, bandy legs and exaggerated limp. Then this cute young thing forces herself upon him. Have to admit I was ready to check out until the film leveled off from its steep dive into awfulness. It goes downhill again when the mother then father enter.

I absolutely cannot recall one line or bit of humor in the film. I guess the gay conversion is supposed to be humorous. The southern religious mother and then father are some of the worst written characters Woody Allen has ever conceived. All the character introductions are terrible.

Another thing that irritated me was how many times Boris was called a "genius" and I kept waiting for him to be taken down a peg, or shown as mistaken, but throughout the film it seems as though he is genuinely viewed as a super-smart guy who has figured out an unassailable life philosophy. Sure he's suicidal, which is also played for (non-existent) laughs, but the film essentially presents his depression as a reasonable response given his worldview. I kept expecting maybe we'd see some example of his genius, but instead were just endlessly told about it. If it was played as straight as it came across to me, this sort of thinking that someone who was brilliant at quantum mechanics is a superior intellect that can understand life, is the kind of misguided thinking that gets a billionaire celebrity elected president, because someone good at making money must know how to run the government.

Maybe I was just too turned off to the film to see how Woody Allen subverts the Boris character. But even at the very end, Boris claims to have special knowledge that only a genius possesses. Thinking back on the film, I like it less and less.
I agree with all of this.

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Re: Auteur List: Woody Allen - Discussion and Defenses

#149 Post by Lemmy Caution » Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:59 pm

I like Sleeper a good deal and it's always fun to rewatch. But it is definitely uneven, with some slow patches and scenes that fumble around.

On this viewing, things that stood out:
A lot of the design work is quite good. I like the white bubble hovercars, the giant produce, the hoversuit which seemingly turns Woody Allen into some sort of giant vegetable, that funky house on the hill. Maybe one weak element would be the Federal Security red vehicles that look somewhat cheesy and unconvicing. But the red security uniforms with black helmets work pretty well. And Woody as a robot is terrific, especially the crucial minor touch of him wearing glasses. Which transitions nicely to:

Some of the understated humor is my favorite part. Early on, Woody casually agrees with and provides misinformation about the late 20thC (Howard Cosell as punishment for criminals being the most memorable). Simple understated quips such as: "that's a big chicken" and "pass the celery." Even small visual gags such as Woody's jetpack getting stuck in a tree and him spinning around instead of the propeller. And of course the glasses on robot Woody.

The surrealist/absurdist humor mostly falls flats. Especially Woody as a female beauty contestant. Also, the Jewish family dinner in the middle of a field, transitioning into Woody as Blanche DuBois (though Diane Keaton doing a Brando impression is fun)

Some of the rebel scenes reminded me of Bananas. And we do get a giant banana and banana peel in the film.

The old time jazz works quite well with the physical humor, which is often well-edited. Woody Allen is quite good at physical comedy here, and I liked the homages to Keaton and Chaplin. I especially like when the doctors try to load addled Woody into a hovercar and he keeps putting his legs up on the side of the car.

The straightmen, especially the various doctors, are quite good in their roles.
Diane Keaton sometimes is shrill and talks loudly in a number of scenes.

Overall, I really enjoy Sleeper. It's like an old friend by now, and for me a high point of Woody's early funny films. But there are lulls, ideas that don't work, and a few scenes that seem improvised (the cloning operation, for instance) which keep it from being a great film. Definitely on my list.
Last edited by Lemmy Caution on Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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swo17
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Re: Auteur List: Woody Allen - Discussion and Defenses

#150 Post by swo17 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:11 pm

I think my favorite joke in any Woody Allen movie is in Sleeper
SpoilerShow
when they go in to do the cloning procedure, completely over their heads with so many ways that it can go wrong and blow their cover, and then Diane Keaton can't even say the word "cloning" right

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