Alternative British List

[Awesome Welles]

Much in the spirit of Jonp's Alternative AFI list I thought it might be interesting to do the same with the BFI's Top 100.

I am certainly not that experienced when it comes to alternative British cinema but as the BFI say with their list:

The list is intended, and offered, as a starting-point for any discussion, rather than as an end to one.

I thought it might be an interesting experiment to start that point of discussion with an alternate list. I would be happy to collate the results and take it to the floor for discussion on whether this list is worthy of our time and also with regards to rules and submission dates.

For reference the list comprises:

The BFI's 100 Best British Films

1 The Third Man (1949, Carol Reed)
2 Brief Encounter (1945, David Lean)
3 Lawrence of Arabia (1962, David Lean)
4 The 39 Steps (1935, Alfred Hitchcock)
5 Great Expectations (1946, David Lean)
6 Kind Hearts and Coronets (1949, Robert Hamer)
7 Kes (1969 Ken Loach)
8 Don't Look Now (1973, Nicolas Roeg)
9 The Red Shoes (1948, Michael Powell, Emeric Pressburger)
10 Trainspotting (1996, Danny Boyle)
11 The Bridge on the River Kwai (1957, David Lean)
12 If... (1968, Lindsay Anderson)
13 The Ladykillers (1955, Alexander Mackendrick)
14 Saturday Night and Sunday Morning (1960, Karel Reisz)
15 Brighton Rock (1947, John Boulting)
16 Get Carter (1971, Mike Hodges)
17 The Lavender Hill Mob (1951, Charles Crichton)
18 Henry V (1944, Laurence Olivier)
19 Chariots of Fire (1981, Hugh Hudson)
20 A Matter of Life and Death (1946, Michael Powell, Emeric Pressburger)
21 The Long Good Friday (1980, John Mackenzie)
22 The Servant (1963, Joseph Losey)
23 Four Weddings and a Funeral (1994, Mike Newell)
24 Whisky Galore! (1949, Alexander Mackendrick)
25 The Full Monty (1997, Peter Cattaneo)
26 The Crying Game (1992, Neil Jordan)
27 Dr Zhivago (1965, David Lean)
28 Monty Python's Life of Brian (1979, Terry Jones)
29 Withnail and I (1987, Bruce Robinson)
30 Gregory's Girl (1980, Bill Forsyth)
31 Zulu (1964, Cy Endfield)
32 Room at the Top (1958, Jack Clayton)
33 Alfie (1966, Lewis Gilbert)
34 Gandhi (1982, Richard Attenborough)
35 The Lady Vanishes (1938, Alfred Hitchcock)
36 The Italian Job (1969, Peter Collinson)
37 Local Hero (1983, Bill Forsyth)
38 The Commitments (1991, Alan Parker)
39 A Fish Called Wanda (1988, Charles Crichton)
40 Secrets & Lies (1995, Mike Leigh)
41 Dr No (1962, Terence Young)
42 The Madness of King George (1994, Nicholas Hytner)
43 A Man for All Seasons (1966, Fred Zimmermann)
44 Black Narcissus (1947, Michael Powell, Emeric Pressburger)
45 The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp (1943, Michael Powell, Emeric
Pressburger)
46 Oliver Twist (1948, David Lean)
47 I'm All Right Jack (1959, John Boulting)
48 Performance (1970, Nicolas Roeg, Donald Cammell)
49 Shakespeare in Love (1998, John Madden)
50 My Beautiful Launderette (1985, Stephen Frears)
51 Tom Jones (1963, Tony Richardson)
52 This Sporting Life (1967, Lindsay Anderson)
53 My Left Foot (1989, Jim Sheridan)
54 Brazil (1985, Terry Gilliam)
55 The English Patient (1996, Anthony Minghella)
56 A Taste of Honey (1961, Tony Richardson)
57 The Go-Between (1970, Joseph Losey)
58 The Man in the White Suit (1951, Alexander Mackendrick)
59 The Ipcress File (1965, Sidney J Furie)
60 Blow Up (1966, Michelangelo Antonioni)
61 The Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner (1962, Tony Richardson)
62 Sense and Sensibility (1995, Ang Lee)
63 Passport to Pimlico (1949, Henry Cornelius)
64 The Remains of the Day (1993, James Ivory)
65 Sunday, Bloody Sunday (1971, John Schlesinger)
66 The Railway Children (1970, Lionel Jeffries)
67 Mona Lisa (1986, Neil Jordan)
68 The Dam Busters (1955, Michael Anderson)
69 Hamlet (1948, Laurence Olivier)
70 Goldfinger (1964, Guy Hamilton)
71 Elizabeth (1998, Shekhar Kapur)
72 Goodbye, Mr. Chips (1939, Sam Wood)
73 A Room with a View (1985, James Ivory)
74 The Day of the Jackal (1973, Fred Zinnemann)
75 The Cruel Sea (1952, Charles Frend)
76 Billy Liar (1963, John Schlesinger)
77 Oliver (1968, Carol Reed)
78 Peeping Tom (1960, Michael Powell)
79 Far From the Madding Crowd (1967, John Schlesinger)
80 The Draughtsman's Contract (1982, Peter Greenaway)
81 A Clockwork Orange (1971, Stanley Kubrick)
82 Distant Voices, Still Lives (1988, Terence Davies)
83 Darling (1965, John Schlesinger)
84 Educating Rita (1983, Lewis Gilbert)
85 Brassed Off (1996, Mark Herman)
86 Genevieve (1953, Henry Cornelius)
87 Women in Love (1969, Ken Russell)
88 A Hard Day's Night (1964, Richard Lester)
89 Fires Were Started (documentary, 1943, Humphrey Jennings)
90 Hope and Glory (1981, John Boorman)
91 My Name is Joe (1998, Ken Loach)
92 In Which We Serve (1942 Noel Coward, David Lean)
93 Caravaggio (1986, Derek Jarman)
94 The Belles of St Trinian's (1954, Frank Launder)
95 Life Is Sweet (1990, Mike Leigh)
96 The Wicker Man (1973, Robin Hardy)
97 Nil By Mouth (1997, Gary Oldman)
98 Small Faces (1995, Gillies Mackinnon)
99 Carry On Up the Khyber (1968, Gerald Thomas)
100 The Killing Fields (1984, Roland Joffe)

[godardslave]

to be fair, i'd just like to point out i think the BFI list is much better than the AFI list.

[Cinetwist]

I'd definitely agree with that too, but there's still some horrid selections. I'd like to see an alternative list, as I'm pretty ignorant of my own country's cinema. I'd like to see a lot more older selections, from the 40s especially, a period when the industry was supposedly at its healthiest and could actually be called an industry.

The dvd situation is quite dire in the UK. Alexander Korda has the grand total of one of his films available. His Laughton films don't even have R2 releases, which is just bizarre.

And if you want dvds of wartime films other than P&P, Lean and Olivier (even then, Demi-Paradise release nowhere to be seen) you'll have to find some TV recordings.

[Gropius]

to be fair, i'd just like to point out i think the BFI list is much better than the AFI list.

And also that the comparative volume of British feature films to choose from is much smaller than the American, particularly if you stick to a one-film-per-director rule.

[Awesome Welles]

The BFI list certainly has it's ups, perhaps it shouldn't entirely be alternate but perhaps just a criterionforum consensus would be interesting enough. Certain obvious classics will remain but I imagine that there will also be a lot for others to offer.

[Mr Sheldrake]

Blowup at #60, right below The Ipcress File, gave me a chuckle.

Two of my favorites missing are Jerzy Skolmikowski's Deep End with a delectable Jane Asher and a memorable Diana Dors; and Jack Clayton's The Pumpkin Eater, from a terrific Pinter script, with Anne Bancroft, surrounded by a slew of children, reciting her chilling refrain "My life is an empty place"

[starmanof51]

yes, an alternate list would be an enjoyable exercise. Just picking a load of unrepresented Alastair Sim movies would be a reputable start.

[Person]

Seance on a Wet Afternoon (1964)
The Browning Version (1951)
The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp (1943)
Sleuth (1972)
Hamlet (1948)
The Innocents (1961)
The Long Good Friday (1980)
The Tales of Hoffmann (1951)
Billy Budd (1962)
Whistle Down the Wind (1961)
The Hill (1965)
Walkabout (1971)
The Ruling Class (1972)
The Collector (1965)
The Tragedy of Macbeth (1971)
The Duellists (1977)
The Day the Earth Caught Fire (1961)
Theater of Blood (1973)
The Abominable Dr. Phibes (1971)
Witchfinder General (1968)
The Offence (1972)
The Rise and Rise of Michael Rimmer (1970)
The Man Who Fell to Earth (1976)
Sir Henry at Rawlinson End (1980)
Entertaining Mr Sloane (1972)
Play Dirty (1968)
Zardoz (1974)

[Cold Bishop]

hmmm... so is this gonna be none-of-the-already-100, or are all movies open. I personally would love to have everything free for nomination, maybe it's just that I'm not an expert on the country's cinema but I can only think of so many titles. That, and that list ain't too bad (despite a few rankings) compared to the AFI, and unlike the AFI list, where there are only a small number of films that it would pain me not to include on the alternate list, there must be at least 15 films on the BFI I refuse to do without.

And please, no Anti-Shorts rule.

[Lemmy Caution]

Odd Man Out
I Know Where I'm Going

Those would be near the top of my list, but missed the BFI list

[domino harvey]

I don't think it's a bad list but by no stretch of the imagination is it a better list than the AFI.

[Cold Bishop]

I don't think it's a bad list but by no stretch of the imagination is it a better list than the AFI.

I don't know... it has Distant Voices, Still Lives, not to mention Performance in the top 50. That alone makes it seem much more adventurous than the AFI list.

[Awesome Welles]

As I said in my previous post I think that a criterionforum consensus without excluding what is already on the list would prove interesting enough. How does everyone feel about further rules such as only one film per director etc.? and submission dates?

[Dr Amicus]

Don't like the idea of one film per director - the thought of only one Powell & Pressburger, Loach, Leigh, Fisher et al is enough to give me the collywobbles.

Mind you, it would lead to an interesting list...

[Awesome Welles]

Provisional Rules:

1. Any British film can be voted for, this includes experimental, documentary, avant-garde, animation... (usual IMDB rules apply)

2. Any number of films may be voted for by a particular director

3. A total of 50 films must be voted for (any film to make the list must be voted for more than once) 1st place will get 50 points, 2nd place will get 49 points and so on

4. A film of any length may be nominated

5. This list is not an anti-list and films on the current BFI list may be voted for, criterionforum's list will merely be a contrast or comparison to the BFI and hopefully produce discussion and greater awareness of British cinema.


How does this sound to everyone?

[Cold Bishop]

Since it got shafted on the American list (were it should rightfully be included) now is the time to vote for Barry Lyndon.

[starmanof51]

Provisional Rules:

1. Any British film can be voted for, this includes experimental, documentary, avant-garde, animation... (usual IMDB rules apply)

So anything that IMDb lists as "Country: UK" would be eligible? Would this include mixed country of origin titles? For instance, IMDb lists Bridge on the River Kwai (on the BFI list) as being UK/USA. Eligible? (I vote yes).

[Cinetwist]

Provisional Rules:

1. Any British film can be voted for, this includes experimental, documentary, avant-garde, animation... (usual IMDB rules apply)

So anything that IMDb lists as "Country: UK" would be eligible? Would this include mixed country of origin titles? For instance, IMDb lists Bridge on the River Kwai (on the BFI list) as being UK/USA. Eligible? (I vote yes).

I'd say Bridge on the River Kwai is certainly eligible. It's just so British. Everything apart from the production company really.

However. Mixed country of origin titles that have a main language other than English probably shouldn't be included. Or even something in English like Fast Food Nation (not that that should be on the list in a billion years!).

[Cold Bishop]

When it comes to multinational productions, the rule seems to be too use your own discretion. Do you really think this film is a British film???

As for David Lean... yes, I would say his films are most definitely English, Hollywood money or no Hollywood money.

[Awesome Welles]

Absolutely, yes, use your own discretion, believe it or not IMDB lists Jason and the Argonauts as a British film, should that be included, I vote no, but then how can a British film really be quantified?

[Nothing]

surely all that matters is the nationality of the director... Vertigo and Blade Runner are British films. Barry Lyndon and Blow Up are not.

If you're going to go by the official declared nationality of a film then things get very silly. A list of co-productions carrying British nationality would include the likes of L'Homme du Train and Dancer in the Dark.

[Cinetwist]

Absolutely, yes, use your own discretion, believe it or not IMDB lists Jason and the Argonauts as a British film, should that be included, I vote no, but then how can a British film really be quantified?

Director, actors, producer, language, locations, production company (money).

Ever since the 60s co-productions have become more common and in the last ten years they have become really common. The Motorcycle Diaries, Man on Fire, Innocence, Machuca, Familia Rodante and Eros are all listed as UK co-productions but to try and adopt them would be a bit cheeky.

[Via_Chicago]

surely all that matters is the nationality of the director... Vertigo and Blade Runner are British films. Barry Lyndon and Blow Up are not.

If you're going to go by the official declared nationality of a film then things get very silly. A list of co-productions carrying British nationality would include the likes of L'Homme du Train and Dancer in the Dark.

Yes, but this seems like an absurdist auteurist view though. How can you neglect the achievements of Hitchcock's or Scott's other collaborators (and I would even dispute that Blade Runner is even an auteurist text at all), who were mostly, if not all, American?

[Cold Bishop]

surely all that matters is the nationality of the director... Vertigo and Blade Runner are British films. Barry Lyndon and Blow Up are not.

I in fact disagree... I wouldn't call Vertigo American or Blow-Up Italian, anymore than I would call The Big Heat or To Be or Not to Be a German film, or to use a more recent example, Children of Men a Mexican film.

I think, yes the filmmaker has something to do with it, but I feel the atmosphere and style and sensibilities of the film have even more. This is why one should try to use the best discretion possible.

As for Barry Lyndon, yes it should be an American film, but since the BFI have no problem counting Kubrick and since the film was excluded from the American list due to IMDB, I have no problem voting for it now.

[Awesome Welles]

Absolutely, yes, use your own discretion, believe it or not IMDB lists Jason and the Argonauts as a British film, should that be included, I vote no, but then how can a British film really be quantified?

Director, actors, producer, language, locations, production company (money).

Ever since the 60s co-productions have become more common and in the last ten years they have become really common. The Motorcycle Diaries, Man on Fire, Innocence, Machuca, Familia Rodante and Eros are all listed as UK co-productions but to try and adopt them would be a bit cheeky.

Exactly a film cannot be quantified as British by the money injected into it. Is Blade Runner a British film purely because it has a British director? I think not. Is Blow Up a British film because it features British actors and locations? Tricky but personally I feel that Blow Up is exactly that kind of International film which is becoming more popular these days it cannot be counted as any particular nation's cinema it is as much Italian as English or Greek or Spanish or whatever you want.

The IMDB should be used as a guide if someone feels that something is British it will be included but when making your suggestions you have to consider what your list represents over all. If it is going to be made up of a list of co productions of films directed by and starring non British subjects what does that say for the Britishness of the list? Britain's cinema has not exactly thrived under the strain of the magnitude of the dominant American cinema, ever since the late twenties when sound was introduced. But having said that there have been many interesting British films produced over the years and I'm sure every decade from the Birth of cinema to present has something to offer.

Personally, I find it very difficult to vote for Barry Lyndon, one of my very favourite films of all time, American director, mixed cast, British source novel, but what really makes it British? I will probably include it in my list because, for me, it exudes British heritage and for that reason alone I will include it, though it pains me to include the film of an American director on a British list, even if it is one of the finest films ever made.