Hong Sangsoo

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artfilmfan
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Re: Hong Sangsoo

#326 Post by artfilmfan » Mon May 04, 2020 9:12 pm

Perhaps domino should have started with The Power of Kangwon Province. That would be my recommendation if a reset/restart is undertaken.

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zedz
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Re: Hong Sangsoo

#327 Post by zedz » Tue May 05, 2020 12:02 am

I'll third Power of Kangwon Province.

Virgin Stripped Bare by Her Bachelors is also a good place to start. It's a strong, clear starter pack of Hong-isms (e.g. doubled narratives, differences in gendered perception), looks great, and could be his funniest film.

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swo17
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Re: Hong Sangsoo

#328 Post by swo17 » Tue May 05, 2020 12:20 am

Yes, but what's the best place for domino to start? domino, who specifically asked for no recommendations

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domino harvey
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Re: Hong Sangsoo

#329 Post by domino harvey » Tue May 05, 2020 12:57 am

Y’all either really like me or really hate me. whynotboth.gif

artfilmfan
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Re: Hong Sangsoo

#330 Post by artfilmfan » Tue May 05, 2020 8:58 am

We really like you, domino. That’s why we really hate to see you starting with the wrong film ;)

After Kangwon Province, Virgin Stripped Bare and Turning Gate should be next. After these three, you’ll be set to go.

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Michael Kerpan
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Re: Hong Sangsoo

#331 Post by Michael Kerpan » Tue May 05, 2020 9:50 am

domino -- I can't SEE your GIF. ;-)

Seconding Virgin Stripped Bare (which _I_ personally like a bit more than Kangwon). Not as certain about Turning Gate.

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kuzine
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Re: Hong Sangsoo

#332 Post by kuzine » Wed May 06, 2020 4:15 pm

Online dossier with essays collected for a 2018 retrospective at Cinematek.

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knives
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Re: Hong Sangsoo

#333 Post by knives » Fri May 08, 2020 7:34 pm

Grass is Hong's best film in years. It's incredibly dense and hard to figure out, but it has an ease that makes not catching everything on first glance a comfortable prospect (the short run time doesn't hurt either). Hong tries out a lot of new things to the extent I was more reminded of Chabrol then anyone else! This is essentially an intercut omnibus film connected by Kim's character. Think of it like Jarmusch's Coffee and Cigarettes, but replaced with soju. The recent bitterness and the old criticism are dropped and replaced with a basic fascinating with relationships with only the final after the credits shot serving as commentary to the events which whirl by in a mystical fashion reminiscent of Carlos Fuentes. The film might also be a sequel to Tale of Cinema and might not. I can't wait to hear people talking about this one because there's a lot to dig into.

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Re: Hong Sangsoo

#334 Post by jigen » Sun May 10, 2020 7:31 am

Does anyone know if Hong's 2009 short Lost in the Mountains or his 2011 short List are currently available in any format? I'm having trouble tracking them down. Most of the features appear to be available but I'm not sure about the shorts.

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Re: Hong Sangsoo

#335 Post by yoshimori » Sun May 10, 2020 11:12 am

"Lost in the Mountains" was, along with shorts by Lav Diaz and Naomi Kawase, part of the 2009 Jeonju Digital Project called Visitors. If you search Vistors + Hong Sang-Soo + DVD, you'll find eBay listings for the (out of print?) Korean DVD.

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Knife Eater
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Re: Hong Sangsoo

#336 Post by Knife Eater » Sun May 10, 2020 12:51 pm

jigen wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 7:31 am
Does anyone know if Hong's 2009 short Lost in the Mountains or his 2011 short List are currently available in any format? I'm having trouble tracking them down. Most of the features appear to be available but I'm not sure about the shorts.
Lost in the Mountains is included on the Grasshopper release of Right Now, Wrong Then.

Based on a screenshot on Cinema Guild's Instagram, it appears their release of Grass includes List as an extra, though their catalog page for the release on their site doesn't mention it.

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Michael Kerpan
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Re: Hong Sangsoo

#337 Post by Michael Kerpan » Wed May 13, 2020 10:44 am

List is an extra on the Grass disc.

Grass is a gorgeous looking b&w film. It is enigmatic and makes frequent references to suicides -- yet is often quite funny and has an ultimately positive and optimistic tone. List is charming and funny. A release very easy to recommend.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Hong Sangsoo

#338 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu May 14, 2020 12:18 am

I really enjoyed Grass, which was a breath of fresh air after recently watching a film that didn't handle expositions of isolated flashbulb with such humility. All interactions reveal so little and yet so much, taking the dually restrictive and perceptive position of the audience and making the experience both emblematic and exemplary of observers and artists. The writer's role gives this a few different interpretations but either way, whether her imagination carries limitations or her physical inability to join beyond eavesdropping does, the interpersonal relationships and emotions are so real, and exist outside of her observations or writing. This is a great example of the theory that art becomes that of the consumer once created, and the beautiful realization we sometimes have when overhearing a talk or even glancing at a person in passing - that there is an entire life there full of passion, interest, pain, fear, similarities, differences, things we want and things we don't.

Also, moments between people just.. matter. I've only seen a few Hong films but he seems to really understand that people are imperfect but carry a power in energy that can be utilized for positivity or harm, selfishness and compassion, etc. but also these polarities are false dichotomies. This film is full of situations where characters act in bravely making themselves vulnerable only to be rejected, or issue blame onto another because of ethical beliefs and virtues translated into emotions. Is a character right to reject another based on personal agency, even if it causes harm or refutes their self-interest? Is there a "right" or "wrong" way to do this, and does it matter based on the feelings of the other or the one acting? Is confronting another person justified even if it's harmful? I think these are challenging questions without correct answers, which is missing the purpose that all action- including non-action- that we bring to the world makes a difference in some way, and capturing that with a camera in an authentic manner is a gift in itself.

The only truth is that people commit actions all day long for a variety of reasons that are honest in some way to their own subjective conditioned behaviors, emotional impulses, philosophies, and mental states. Accepting that with curiosity and humanism, and without judgment or the insertion of self, there is a lot to soak up here. I'm excited to explore more of his films off the strength of this.

I also really enjoyed the final shot, following a call for the communal act of 'joining' and humanist respect for coexistence, especially inviting the observer in and humanizing her, though I am curious about your perception knives, since you mentioned it:
SpoilerShow
I can see the tiny little sprouting plants of equal size signifying that equality of dignity and worth, as well as the commonality of experience, strengths and limitations, and the necessity for us to be together - and above all, the naturalness of it. Though since the plants are growing outside at various lengths during the film, there could be tons of other readings regarding what is 'real' or not, even if I think that takes away from the themes of the film. I like the idea that regardless of how much growth you make, or how 'big' you make your problems/flaunt your emotions, growth always occurs - and we can return to zero and start anew, and do in many ways each day and in each conversation through re-evaluation and natural development. The metaphor feels purposefully vague but there is definitely a lot of worthy investment in picking it apart based on how the film has functioned.

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knives
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Re: Hong Sangsoo

#339 Post by knives » Thu May 14, 2020 7:32 am

SpoilerShow
I took it that they were dead at the end since they seemed so sparse. An ultimate statement that a relationship will die if not taken care of which appropriately for the film is a harsh way to say something optimistic.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Hong Sangsoo

#340 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu May 14, 2020 8:54 am

SpoilerShow
Oh man, that skirts a little too close to this being didactic rather than unconditionally curious and validating which is how I read it. In fact I don’t think this film would work for me at all then, unless a middle reading allowed for it to be essentially saying the same thing - as growth being fluid. Relationships will end due to a variety of factors- including naturally via time and from variables outside one’s control.

So many of these relationships end because of the receiver not being aligned with the more action-heavy person. We certainly can’t be faulting them for not returning romantic advances, for the perceptions of another person’s assignment of blame? Or conversely, we can’t be ourselves judging those who choose to initiate engagement with others in a strange method of intimacy by being transparent about their emotions? These can lead to harm but bottling them up can too- I like how the film shows how both paths can equal harm/negativity as well as be serenity/positive too, with the humanist therapeutic mantra that ‘people are doing the best they can in every given circumstance’ ringing in my ear, even if the ‘best’ still isn’t ‘enough’ for all parties. Judgment would indicate a disempowerment to all the characters who are trying to engage with the world in focusing on the imperfections, rather than the positive or valid intents behind even questionable actions or reactions.

In your reading I could see optimism in the unity amongst relationships ending, divorced from concrete or clear cut ‘blame’ and the possibilities of starting anew fresh- a cyclical structure of life as we and our relationships learn, grow, experience, and die - organically - and then sprout again (a continual process, always occurring, nonlinearly). But I can’t get behind what feels like a finger wagging teaching moment in not only showing what will happen if you don’t take care of relationships, but in supposing that this film was about people doing the ‘wrong’ things. (I also think those were new growing plants for a variety of practical reasons).

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Michael Kerpan
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Re: Hong Sangsoo

#341 Post by Michael Kerpan » Thu May 14, 2020 9:41 am

SpoilerShow
I need to go back and look again -- but I thought the plants at the end were almost the same as they had been at the very beginning. If that is si, I have no clue as to what it might mean.
I loved the fact that this film remained interesting throughout despite the lack of anything resembing a "plot". ;-)

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knives
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Re: Hong Sangsoo

#342 Post by knives » Thu May 14, 2020 10:00 am

I actually agree with your middle reading and was just being broad in my explanation. That said I'll take five seconds of subtly presented didactism for an hour presented in that fashion.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Hong Sangsoo

#343 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu May 14, 2020 10:40 am

knives wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 10:00 am
I actually agree with your middle reading and was just being broad in my explanation. That said I'll take five seconds of subtly presented didactism for an hour presented in that fashion.
I think we are in agreement then, and I should have been clear that the didactic element that would repel me is one where the characters are being judged. The subtle didacticism exists at the end in my reading too, just one that is a push for humanism and to resist the urge to judge. That's still didactic, and like you say a necessary lesson after a film that is so generously exploratory.

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Re: Hong Sangsoo

#344 Post by Michael Kerpan » Thu May 14, 2020 10:52 am

The only character who did not reappear (and have some resolution of his issues) was the Lothario. ;-)

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knives
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Re: Hong Sangsoo

#345 Post by knives » Thu May 14, 2020 11:02 am

I think the film is absolutely in love with its characters which might be why it ends too cheerfully to be judgmental. The film is basically acting like these characters are who they are and it cannot communicate to them so must take its own lessons although they can't. Maybe that is the Chabrol I felt?

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Hong Sangsoo

#346 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu May 14, 2020 11:28 am

Maybe, at first I was taken aback by any Chabrol comparisons, though the positioning of objectivity with nonjudgmental grey depictions is definitely synonymous. I don't think there is any effort to communicate to them because there would be nothing to communicate though, and so the camera is more tilted in its focus on unequivocal affirmations through curiosity rather than endorsement. The lack of ambiguity in its compassion ironically clashes with the exposition on ambiguity in the characters' actions applied to social ethics.

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Michael Kerpan
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Re: Hong Sangsoo

#347 Post by Michael Kerpan » Thu May 14, 2020 11:50 am

Anyone else watch List yet? I thought it was a good pairing with Grass -- in that it was especially kind and good-natured (if slighter).

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Hong Sangsoo

#348 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu May 14, 2020 3:17 pm

List showed more of Hong's clear love for Rohmer. The breezy winds interacting with characters connect them with natural order harmoniously rather than uncomfortably, eliciting a transcendental air of optimism even in hardship and uncertainty. Perhaps not as complexly layered as Grass but the motives felt very different, even if complementing that vibe of innate capacity for resilience, tapping into strengths, and interest in fellow man. The abrupt push-ins were perplexing at first but over time signified the repetitive departures from comfort to courage, whether a philosophical conversation between mother and daughter turning into a subject of the daughter's vulnerable future involving necessary, frightening change; or a safe conversation with a stranger sharply rerouting to impromptu words of affection and asking her on a date.

Also, as a lover of lists myself I respect the desire to use them for loose organization, and therapeutic catharsis through thinking ahead with self-guided optimism. The call for present-minded positivity is welcome right now, and in a way feels like Rohmer's style and casual interplay boiled down into a lighthearted thesis for living your best life and soaking up experience with full attention to the here and now. The concept behind the list's creation here is in the present geared toward further present-minded experience in the future, as opposed to worrying or displacing oneself outside of the current moment into that future time. In that sense, Hong rejects the notion of a list as a tool to detach from our current state, and more as a blueprint to continue the flow of conscious participation, which is a lovely recontextualization.

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Michael Kerpan
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Re: Hong Sangsoo

#349 Post by Michael Kerpan » Thu May 14, 2020 3:31 pm

List uses a stratagem Naruse used in Morning's Tree-Lined Streets (which has a similar feel in some respects -- but perhaps a very different view of "Prince Charmings). (It really is a shame this Naruse film is one of the one's that seems never destined to get even streaming availability).

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Re: Hong Sangsoo

#350 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu May 14, 2020 4:53 pm

I'll have to locate that - I'm curious as to your reading of "Prince Charming" in the Hong, which was clearly a playful theme but one I couldn't get a clear interpretation on. My sense was that the director as a prince charming resembled a combination of fantastical idea and actual opportunistic holds on spontaneity. The way the relationship develops and the nature of his departure makes any distinction blurred for me, which I liked, but didn't know exactly what to make of it.

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