Unauthorized Releases & Bootlegs

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miloauckerman
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:08 am

#26 Post by miloauckerman » Tue May 10, 2005 9:59 pm

Has anyone dealt with Subcinema - does he sell his videos or only trade? I'd like to see Wiseman's Titicut Follies and High School, but I've never seen them available from other bootleggers.

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exte
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:27 pm
Location: NJ

#27 Post by exte » Tue May 10, 2005 11:02 pm

Has anyone heard of a bootleg called, "Scorsese Assembled: Collected Works"?

It includes "Martin Scorsese Directs" - a British 60-minute documentary made in 1990 when he was shooting Goodfellas, and "In Search of Kundun with Martin Scorsese" - an 85min. documentary made in 1998. The set is a two disc that also includes American Boy, which I'm dying to see. I know bootlegs are by no means stadardized, but someone apparently got all of this in one set. Anyone? Thanks.

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Fletch F. Fletch
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:54 pm
Location: Provo, Utah

#28 Post by Fletch F. Fletch » Wed May 11, 2005 10:00 am

exte wrote:Has anyone heard of a bootleg called, "Scorsese Assembled: Collected Works"?

It includes "Martin Scorsese Directs" - a British 60-minute documentary made in 1990 when he was shooting Goodfellas, and "In Search of Kundun with Martin Scorsese" - an 85min. documentary made in 1998. The set is a two disc that also includes American Boy, which I'm dying to see. I know bootlegs are by no means stadardized, but someone apparently got all of this in one set. Anyone? Thanks.
I haven't heard of that bootleg but years ago I contacted the guys who made "Martin Scorsese Directs" and they gave me a copy of that doc (on VHS sadly) and talked a bit about how Scorsese plucked them right out of film school to hang out on the set and make the doc. It is excellent, one of the best I've seen on the man and his films.

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The Elegant Dandy Fop
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:25 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

#29 Post by The Elegant Dandy Fop » Thu May 12, 2005 10:06 pm

miloauckerman wrote:Has anyone dealt with Subcinema - does he sell his videos or only trade? I'd like to see Wiseman's Titicut Follies and High School, but I've never seen them available from other bootleggers.
They do both on his site, you just need to contact him via email.

miloauckerman
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:08 am

#30 Post by miloauckerman » Mon May 16, 2005 12:55 am

Grazi. I was a little worried about offending (or scaring him, legal-wise) by mentioning sales right off the bat.

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feihong
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:20 pm

#31 Post by feihong » Tue May 24, 2005 2:02 am

Anyone have the disc of Glauber Rocha's "Black God, White Devil" that is making the rounds on E-bay right now (I'm assuming it's a boot, but hey)? What's the quality like? Will I be happy with it?

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viridiana
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 3:48 am
Location: Freedonia

#32 Post by viridiana » Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:28 am

My older brother and I recently made a decent-sized order from Super Happy Fun and everything went smoothly. I also really like the guy that runs the site - you can tell he's a film fan and besides that he's just a genuinely nice fella.

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zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm

#33 Post by zedz » Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:34 am

feihong wrote:Anyone have the disc of Glauber Rocha's "Black God, White Devil" that is making the rounds on E-bay right now (I'm assuming it's a boot, but hey)? What's the quality like? Will I be happy with it?
There's a Brazilian 2-disc set (not a boot) that is very fine indeed. Pretty much Criterion-quality, extras galore, but only the feature has English subtitles. Wonderful, wonderful film: you'll be thrilled. Especially if you're fluent in Portugese.

Here's a link to a Brazilian site with the cover art, so you know what to look for.

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Gordon
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:03 am

#34 Post by Gordon » Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:28 am

I am a huge fan of Czech Cinema and so far, from Super Happy Fun, I have ordered:

The Sky Riders (1968, Jindrich Polak), a sober, austere study of Czech pilots in Britain during WWII, based on legendary aerial gunner Filip Jansky's superb autobiography. Amazing atmosphere. Decent transfer.

Tomorrow, I Will Scald Myself with Tea (1977, Jindrich Polak), which is one of the most hilarious sci-fi comedies ever made. Surely a major influence on Back to the Future? Very good transfer.

The Cremator (1968, Juraj Herz). Disturbing stuff. Excellent transfer.

Transport from Paradise (1962, Brynych Zbynek). Harrowing, broad-ranging view of life in a concentration camp. Makes Schindler's List look a pile of overblown, sentimental crap.

Diamonds of the Night (1964, Jan Nemec). Two adolescent Czech boys escape from a death-train on its way to a concentration camp, but are pursused by German civilians. One of the greatest 'survival' films ever made. Almost with dialogue, Nemec creates a world of striking images and pulls us into the minds of his brave protagonists. Poor, blocky transfer still can't hide the sobre brilliance of the this amazing film.

The Mysterious Castle in the Carpahtians (1981, Oldrich Lipsky). In the 1800s, Baron Gorc, owner of The Devil's Castle, an obsessed opera fan, keeps the body of Salsa Verde, his favorite opera star, preserved in a crypt in the castle. In order to deter intruders, the baron's mad-scientist invents all manner of weird devices (including television!) in order to give the castle a creepy reputation. Based on Jules Verne's, Le Château des Carpathes. Very, very funny. Excellent transfer.

And there are many more obscure masterpieces available.

http://www.superhappyfun.com/content.htm

At the top-left of the screen, there is a box, where you can choose fiilms by director, country and genre.

I also recently ordered Antonioni's The Red Desert, which, as you know, is OOP and goes for crazy money on Ebay. This is a copy of the Image DVD. Weak transfer, I feel. Amazing film. A highly atmopheric downer. I really hope that Criterion picks up the rights soon.

Quite a few of Juraj Jakubisko's (an audacious Master of Cinema, criminally overlooked) best films are now available via the password-protected page. PM me if you want the password.

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feihong
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:20 pm

#35 Post by feihong » Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:34 pm

Great! I thought the "BGWD" DVD was a boot when I saw it on e-bay, but that's the one I was looking for! And it's legit, that's cool.

I've made two large orders from superhappyfun and I've been totally happy with them. I got one disc I couldn't play on my DVD player, and they replaced it right away. Their prices are unbeatable and the stock is just fucking incredible.

Speaking of which...

to tie these two together, anyone get "Antonio Das Mortes" from superhappyfun? I have the feeling I'll love "BGWD," but what about this one? Secondly, anyone know of a DVD of "The Earth Entranced?"

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exte
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:27 pm
Location: NJ

#36 Post by exte » Fri Jun 03, 2005 3:26 pm

I'm watching Evil Dead II now, and at the age of twenty-five, and being an aspiring filmmaker, it's a wonder that I didn't try seeing this much earlier... (though a friend was a huge, huge fan of his...)

Anyway, does anyone know where I can get Sam Raimi's short films? It would be much appreciated! Thanks.

solent

#37 Post by solent » Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:45 am

Thanks for the info GM. Is the transfer of DIAMONDS IN THE NIGHT the same as the expensive Facets VHS version? I actually don't mind the print they use since subs arn'e an issue in this mostly silent film & the images are reasonably clear. REPORT ON THE PARTY VHS is very poor quality however & it has the loudest surface noise on any video print I've ever heard.

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Gordon
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:03 am

#38 Post by Gordon » Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:43 pm

Henson's Cube is now available at Super Happy Fun and it is supposedly from a decent VHS copy.

The Hour-Glass Sanitorium is also available, but has no subtitles. Bummer. I might order it, though. Visually, it stands alone. Bizarre, striking film from a fine filmmaker.

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backstreetsbackalright
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:49 pm
Location: 313

#39 Post by backstreetsbackalright » Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:35 pm

Anyone checked out the 5 Minutes To Live disc of Make Way For Tomorrow? It's tempting me....

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exte
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:27 pm
Location: NJ

#40 Post by exte » Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:54 pm

Anyone ever see Amblin? It's Spielberg's short film that got him a job at Universal. How's the quality, if so?

And Xenogenesis? Jim Cameron's first short film? Does anyone know where I can get it? Thanks very much.

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Steven H
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:30 pm
Location: NC

#41 Post by Steven H » Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:55 pm

backstreetsbackalright wrote:Anyone checked out the 5 Minutes To Live disc of Make Way For Tomorrow? It's tempting me....
No, but I have superhappyfun.com's version which is taped off of television and looks about as good as a worn out VHS rental (great film though, and I'm glad I had the chance to see it, but...)

Titus
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:40 pm

#42 Post by Titus » Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:28 pm

I assume this is the correct place to pose the question, but if not, feel free to move it or merge it with a pre-existing thread (I do know there's one regarding Criterions specifically, but this is more general).

I placed an order over half.com yesterday for Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. As we all know, Disney only releases their titles for a limited run, and unfortunately I missed out on Snow White. Buying OOP titles can be a pain, as there are rampant bootlegs floating around ebay and half.com, the only two sources I'm familiar with in obtaining these types of titles (along with Amazon).

Although I went through the perfunctory motions of asking the seller if it was indeed the official, American, Region 1 release of the film, and not an import or bootleg, I'm starting to wonder what kind of assurance his answers really give me. The price was much better than I've found on Ebay ($35), and his feedback is 97.6%.....far from terrible, but he's obviously had some fed up customers in the past. What's more, his feedback profile is private, so I can't read up on what dissatisfactions his former customers have had. He's also still got Snow White listed, for the same price, and probably had more of them listed before I ever purchased it. He's also got Beauty and the Beast listed (and it's got a total of 5 questions asked regarding it, so I'm assuming he's had several buyers of it already), for the price of around $25, which I thought was astoundingly low. On top of this, he has Band of Brothers, in the original tin, for $30.

He's stated that satisfaction is guaranteed, so if I choose to return it I'm assuming I can for a full refund. Anybody else think this looks suspicious, and is there a way to tell for sure, once I get the item, whether it's legit?

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exte
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:27 pm
Location: NJ

#43 Post by exte » Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:34 pm

It depends how bad you really want Snow White. If it's bad enough, pay top dollar for piece of mind with someone who's preferably sold thousands, and has close to 100%. I would NOT go with the guy you described. That "low" price will be very high once you find out it's a bootleg...

Titus
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:40 pm

#44 Post by Titus » Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:46 pm

exte wrote:I would NOT go with the guy you described. That "low" price will be very high once you find out it's a bootleg...
True, but the problem is the finding out part. Unless it's bought at a legit retailer, can you ever have piece of mind regarding it (even if the piece of mind entails me finding out I've purchased a bootleg)? I've bought a couple other Disney discs after they'd gone OOP, and I've always had the nagging notion in the back of my head that they might be knock-offs. My friends think I'm nuts: "If the quality's roughly the same, who cares?", but I'm afraid I suffer from a serious bout of OCD in this regard.

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The Digital McGuffin
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 8:27 am
Location: CGILand, London

#45 Post by The Digital McGuffin » Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:26 pm

I would err on the side of caution on this one if I were you. 97.6% might sound like a very large amount of happy customers, but when you factor in that there will be a lot of buyers that neither know nor care that their DVD might not be the real deal, then it's less reassuring. Personally, if an established/pro trader has less than 99% positive rating (even the best sellers can fall victim to the small percentage of idiot buyers) I'd be inclined to avoid them. A user hiding their feedback at best suggests that there is a big customer service problem that they don't want aired.

If a price is too good to be true, then that's usually the case but then, you might have actually come across a genuinely naïve seller that doesn't understand his stock. Does the guy only seem to stock OOP titles? If they're mixed in amongst the usual bargain bin titles, then you're probably safe. Certainly, I'd question how practical and profitable it would be for a bootlegger to replicate the tin for the Band of Brothers box.

If the seller insists it's genuine when he responds to you and you do decide to risk it, make sure you can pay by something like a cheque so that you have their physical address of where they can be reached rather than just an e-mail address. Between the address, the false listing and the actual goods, you'd have enough to report to their local authorities if you needed to. The threat of that would be enough to make most bootleggers refund you to avoid the hassle. It all depends if the potential risk and hassle is worth the potential saving to you. Unfortunately, I've come up against a bootleg more than once, but have always managed to pry my money back in the end.

I'm no expert on Disney releases, but all that I've seen have had the Buena Vista security hologram on the rear cover. As before, I wouldn't have thought a bootlegger trying to replicate that detail would be worth their effort. Maybe they are that advanced, I don't know.

Titus
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:40 pm

#46 Post by Titus » Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:49 pm

I in fact have already cancelled the order. To the seller's credit he was very compliant and cancelled the order immediately upon request, but the general fishiness of it all seemed too much to ignore.

I also wondered how it would be profitable to bootleg the Band of Brothers set, as he clearly specified that it included the tin and that it was the U.S. release, yet was only charging $30. Moreoever, the Snow White release included the cardboard sleeve. Seeing as how so many of the releases don't include it (in my casual shopping I've very rarely come across a copy on Ebay that included it), you would think a bootlegger wouldn't bother with such a trifle. But, as usual, my neurosis claimed victory.

Also, about the Buena Vista security hologram; I just checked all of my Disney titles (those being Sleeping Beauty, Fantasia Anthology, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, and The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad), and couldn't find would you were alluding to. Am I just a little dense or could this be a UK exclusive type thing? For some reason I doubt each of my titles are knock-offs :D ........... :?

Thanks for the replies thus far, any more help on the matter (that being the ability to identify bootlegs, specifically on Disney releases) would be much appreciated.

analoguezombie

#47 Post by analoguezombie » Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:40 pm

The Snow White sounded like a bootleg to me, so it's good you canceled it. As for Band of Brothers, it's probably the real deal. Aparrently, about 60% of Target stores put the Band of Brothers Box set (along with other HBO series titles) on super clearance discount at $5.88. THis mistake was corrected within 24 hours, but some people got lucky and bought as many of the sets as possible. He's probably turning them around for a quick profit.

As far as avoiding Bootlegs in general, the advice given above is right on. Basically "if it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is". Anyone who is selling multiple copies of rare or OOP items is almost definitely selling bootlegs. Plus, if they are a big time DVD seller and they aren't bothering to list "Region 1, not bootleg" you might be suspicious. If your looking for an OOP title the only way you'll get a great deal on the real thing is if the seller is naive or if the market is flooded (as is the case with the Breaking the Waves dvds right now), either way it's just luck.

With Disney stuff, titles going OOP is part of their marketing strategy. This means that legit copies of OOP Disney titles are going to go for major $$, simply b/c of the market for these releases and their relatively short shelf-time. If you start running into cheap, legit copies of Disney dvds be sure to check the web about possible imminent reissues. As you may or may not know, Disney has their whole 'locked away in the vault' thing, and they periodically open the doors to vomit forth whatever dvds 'for a limited time'. SO stuff is always going in and out of print.

Now if you find yourself really wanting copies of rare or OOP titles often, I'd suggest doing one of two things:
1) buy a region-free dvd player and buy editions available overseas. Nothing is OOP everywhere.
2) visit sites like www.superhappyfun.com that unapologetically sell DVD-R bootlegs of movies for about $10-$13.

Titus
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:40 pm

#48 Post by Titus » Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:58 pm

I've already got the Region-Free, PAL converter machine. I really don't have a lot of OOP's that I'm shopping around for (Begotten and Go, Go, Second Time Virgin are the only other two off the top of my head that I've been searching for), but unfortunately I missed the boat on several Disney titles that were OOP before I decided to pick them up. I've already listed the ones I own, and each of them were bought over Half.com or Ebay (other than Ichabod and Mr. Toad, which came from DDD if I recall correctly).

I typically avoid Ebay/Half entirely for the express purpose of alleviating any potential doubt from my mind, but there's not much of an alternative in this situation. Each of the Disney titles I've bought have come with the cardboard slipcases, which I originally took to be a sign of authenticity. I just wish there were a surefire way to shoot down the possibilities that they, or my future/potential Snow White purchase, may be sophisticated copies.

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dekadetia
was Born Innocent
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:57 pm
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

#49 Post by dekadetia » Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:02 pm

RE: Snow White

That's a fake, right? I mean, they put a seal sticker on top, but that's a slim double-amaray, which should be a dead giveaway -- and this seller has a 99.4%! I had to go ten pages in to find a negative feedback, and the first I found was the complaint, "were not authentic disney dvds." Just goes to show you how unreliable eBay really is.

Titus
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:40 pm

#50 Post by Titus » Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:30 pm

This is the problem. As far as I know, it's impossible (or nearly impossible) to tell if that's a fake or not. Disney OOP's, along with Criterion OOP's, are a huge market for bootleggers, and they seem to be able to pull off quite a bit of magic.

The slim amaray keep-case with an addition disc holder inside is commensurate with the rest of the Disney releases, and after doing a little digging it appears that Snow White (which was the first of their "Platinum" releases) didn't come with the cardboard sleeve that accompanies the rest of these discs. My previous idea was to simply go after one that had the sleeve, as I didn't figure a bootlegger would take the time or effort to bother with them (though that's not foolproof), but that's not a possibility in this situation.

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