Rough House Pictures (Jody Hill, Danny McBride, et al.)

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swo17
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Re: Danny McBride's Residency at HBO

#76 Post by swo17 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:10 am

domino harvey wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:44 am
How materially different is this from what McBride did in (the excellent) Don Verdean?
This is more vulgar of course. But Jared Hess is a consultant on this show!

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Re: Eastbound & Down / Vice Principals / The Righteous Gemstones

#77 Post by mfunk9786 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:24 am

Edi Patterson is on yesterday's WTF - it's incredible to hear who auditioned for SNL and just hung on the periphery without being added to the cast. I can't imagine seeing her and thinking "part time writer".

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Re: Eastbound & Down / Vice Principals / The Righteous Gemstones

#78 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:02 am

I'm sure the list of people that show passed on is almost as impressive as the ones who have been on it.

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Re: Eastbound & Down / Vice Principals / The Righteous Gemstones

#79 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:59 pm

The flashback episode was nice enough. Not sure Goodman quite pulled off playing himself 30 years younger, but otherwise most of it felt authentic to the time.

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Re: Eastbound & Down / Vice Principals / The Righteous Gemstones

#80 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:29 pm

Has anyone finished the first season of The Righteous Gemstones who can tell me if it gets any better in the latter half of the season? LQ and I got through the first handful of episodes, then rewatched the entirety of Eastbound and Down (she had never seen it), then had a hard time going back to Gemstones as it packs a whole lot less of a punch than Eastbound and Down or Vice Principals. Does it find some more solid footing?

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Re: Eastbound & Down / Vice Principals / The Righteous Gemstones

#81 Post by swo17 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:36 pm

So I just recently watched the last two series in full and am confident in saying that Gemstones is unfortunately a disappointment. Some scattered brilliant moments but I'm not sure they're worth waiting around for. E&D (from memory) and VP are the real deal though

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Re: Vice Principals

#82 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:41 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:55 pm
Nuclear take: Vice Principals is a better show than Game of Thrones
This aged tremendously well

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Re: Vice Principals

#83 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:13 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:41 pm
mfunk9786 wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:55 pm
Nuclear take: Vice Principals is a better show than Game of Thrones
This aged tremendously well
You won't find any counterargument there from me. I don't think I ever commented on it, but Vice Principals is one of the most interesting and bold shows to come out in the last decade, and the thoughts shared here really helped me evolve my own complex opinions on it involving sociopolitical influences I never would have considered otherwise. While Eastbound and Down and something like Observe and Report struck a unique tonal balance between the narcissistic personality type disguising mental health issues or defending vulnerabilities in core beliefs, and the actual isolative pain and social consequences of living with this personality, Vice Principals went even further at dissecting the internalized and externalized harmful effects while validating the person with humanist empathy better than anything any of these people (Hill, McBride, Green, etc.) involved have ever done before. They allowed themselves to leave the material vague enough to respect its moral flexibility and impossibility for linear or clear diagnostics, and I respected the show immensely for presenting something so challenging manifesting as a silly comedy. So many people I know hated it, but I think it's one of the most genius black comedies I've ever seen, and I could see a world where if considered as one film (since it was written as such, preplanned story episodes and all, wait-should it be in contention?) it would make my decade list for the 2010s. I haven't seen The Righteous Gemstones yet, but I don't know how they can top VP, as it's really what all of their prior work has been building towards.

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Re: Eastbound & Down / Vice Principals / The Righteous Gemstones

#84 Post by DarkImbecile » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:15 pm

How has there not been a TV show set in a brothel called Vice Principles yet?

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Re: Vice Principals

#85 Post by swo17 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:22 pm

therewillbeblus wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:13 pm
I could see a world where if considered as one film (since it was written as such, preplanned story episodes and all, wait-should it be in contention?) it would make my decade list for the 2010s.
I'm gonna say it's close but a little too much of a stretch--the only exceptions I was planning to make for the lists project were entire seasons of shows with every installment directed by the same person

But if it makes you feel any better, I do keep a copy in the David Gordon Green section of my shelves

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Re: Eastbound & Down / Vice Principals / The Righteous Gemstones

#86 Post by knives » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:29 pm

Jody Hill is the true auteur. :)

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Re: Eastbound & Down / Vice Principals / The Righteous Gemstones

#87 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:07 pm

That's true, he really is - so by that logic i.e. dismantling auteur theory, it would be eligible. Plus not Hill's fault HBO didn't want to do an 18-episode one-off season a la Peaks. But fair enough!

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Re: Eastbound & Down / Vice Principals / The Righteous Gemstones

#88 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:58 pm

I feel a bit like Gemstones wants to have it's cake and eat it too, showing the hypocrisy in big business evangelism but also making you empathize with the characters. That might have been okay with a washed-up ball player and two high school teachers who go completely insane trying to ascend professionally, but applying it here feels a bit out-of-step to me. The cast all has it's moments that rise above it a little, but I can see it stretching out it's welcome especially as I heard that McBride wants this to break the mold of the previous shows and go on for a little longer.

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Re: Eastbound & Down / Vice Principals / The Righteous Gemstones

#89 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:40 pm

Halfway through with Gemstones and I’m not sure I’ll continue. It definitely has a similar vibe to the other series but it’s missing a strong sense of Jody Hill’s fingerprints. I get the feeling he took more of a backseat here and it appears that McBride is playing in that wheelhouse but with a looser handling on the material, which creates more misses than hits and packs less of a punch in tackling the deep emotional friction and social politics the other works capture so well.

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Re: Eastbound & Down / Vice Principals / The Righteous Gemstones

#90 Post by smccolgan » Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:01 pm

therewillbeblus wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:40 pm
Halfway through with Gemstones and I’m not sure I’ll continue. It definitely has a similar vibe to the other series but it’s missing a strong sense of Jody Hill’s fingerprints. I get the feeling he took more of a backseat here and it appears that McBride is playing in that wheelhouse but with a looser handling on the material, which creates more misses than hits and packs less of a punch in tackling the deep emotional friction and social politics the other works capture so well.
I think Gemstones ends in a surprisingly strong and resonant way, even if the characters are a little outsized at times. After VP, I'm happy to see where this show ends up in S2 and give it a little bit of a longer leash.

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Re: Eastbound & Down / Vice Principals / The Righteous Gemstones

#91 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:46 pm

Since this is as close to a Jody Hill thread as we've got, I want to put in a good word for The Legacy of a Whitetail Deer Hunter (on Netflix), which seems to have been seen or talked about by no one here (or elsewhere, Netflix really dropped the ball on advertising this one). Hill's third feature at the helm got trashed by critics, perhaps because it's not aiming to strike the same intense darkness as the bold risks in his canon, but for those who appreciate his observational humanist sense of humor channeled through introverted macho confined expressiveness, this is well worth seeking out. The focus here is back on the crew's familiar generational dissonance of father-son relationships that scars the adult more than the child, both of who can't cope with thorns in their expectations, and amusingly plays with these hypersensitive egotistical and emotional issues in the conservative social context of Southern hunters. The juxtaposition of equally absurdist cultural spheres is often hilarious, with Montana Jordan emulating Gen Z childhood that defies sociopolitical borders, while Brolin's declarations of backwards-inspiring markers of maturity ('blood on clothes' had me roaring) are delivered with the usual blend of simultaneous ridicule and affirmation. The empathy/mockery balance is on point, and although it doesn't have as much as say or reach levels of depth of their best work, its obscure status is hardly justified- and puzzling what with the fanbase this creative team has.

Per usual there are also some strong visual gags and nonverbal reactions that are gold, and Hill and co. continue to find novel symptoms of compassion in mean-spiritedness, and vice versa. Around the halfway mark, Brolin delivers a speech about the need for power and control, at the expense of facing fears through avoidance, that sums up Hill's thematic interests a bit on the nose- but it's still executed with a gentleness that serves the story well. Brolin is a more sympathetic actor than McBride's narcissistic persona (who has a strong supporting role, playing his 'other' personality: the meek wingman), and it's interesting to see a more established versatile yet restrained actor take on this kind of character, which cushions the viewer to work less hard to wrestle with his flaws, but also conversely doesn't earn the same intimate access to perceive his assets through the challenging work of facing the barriers of personal triggers standing in the way.

[Note: I know there are other, seemingly more suitable, places to put this- like Films of 2018, the Netflix thread, or the 2010s List Project, but since the issue here is that this film has been poorly advertised to Hill and McBride's fanbase, this felt like the most appropriate place to get the word out there and give the film a chance]

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Re: Rough House Pictures (Jody Hill, Danny McBride, et al.)

#92 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:17 pm

bainbridgezu wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:30 am
I can certainly appreciate why you didn't get into Gemstones, but would recommend giving it another try if the feeling strikes. It's definitely more McBride's show than Hill's, and the whole mega-church millionaires angle immediately removes it far further from our reality than the other characters we've mentioned. Even Kenny Powers was principally a legend in his own mind. But for what it is, I adore it without reservation.

Not sure how much you got to see of Goggins' Uncle Baby Billy, but he's a truly outrageous presence that somehow transcends the memes (though "Misbehavin'" is a true earworm) and reveals himself to be both a deeply recognizable human being and a whirlwind agent of chaos. He's consistently being pushed away from the main family (often with good reason), which in turn calcifies his resentment, causing him to goad the others to their worst extremes.

Additionally, Edi Patterson -- who also does a share of the series' writing -- delivers a lengthy monologue near the end of the season (in an Outback Steakhouse, you'll know the one) that's breathtakingly funny and existentially horrifying, while remaining believable and totally consistent with her character. For me, big swings like that and dropping an emotional, full-episode prequel in the middle of the season (somewhat like the also great Mythic Quest did this year) balance the less-grounded bombast. Different strokes of course, but that's my two cents.
I took your advice, went back and finished the season, and I liked it well enough, even if it wasn't anywhere near their best work as a whole. I agree that Goggins' character got more interesting and "Misbehavin'" is forever stuck in my head (no complaints there!) but I was shocked to find that my favorite character by a long-shot was the dead-last one I expected to gravitate towards: Adam DeVine's Kelvin.

I realized I had stopped after three episodes, and episode four, Wicked Lips, was no-contest the best of the series and one of best things this creative team has done. It's nonstop perfection, everything lands, and a core reason is due to Kelvin's character who is granted the complexity of diamonds these guys often find in the ruff.
Episode 4Show
After setting up the character to be a pathetic, immature kid-brother playing catch-up and suck-up with rose-colored glasses, we get the ultimate setup for his grand punchline of mockery when he goes to help a stereotypically-cool teenage girl while ignorantly donning the facade of the youth-whisperer. As we wait for the catharsis from this observable self-delusion, we are caught completely off guard as we finally see how his energy is actually appealing and stems from a place of genuine compassion rather than self-serving sources (even if initiated by the patriarch’s selfish motive, because his desires to please his father and exert positivity for others are more relatable and qualities worth empathizing with). It’s a wonderful reframe of what "cool" is, with the dependable actions of his real-life heroics, defaulting to loyalty over self-preservation in a fight/flight situation, cutting through the actual facade of stupidity fogging the mirror with our preconceived unfair judgments. His allure at swaying this person is played so convincingly in rhythm with his positive energy that it becomes another great example of the affirmations Hill and McBride grant their impassioned characters no matter how flawed or skewed their perspectives are.. for we are compelled to treat them with one more open-minded and flexible, unless we want to declare ourselves no better than what we've already overplayed our hand to speak out as weaknesses.

This exposition is also a terrific meditation (uncomfortable for many audiences, I’m sure) on the positive aspects of the blindly faithful. The stiff views may be alienating, but these people can be so self-actualized in their identities, that they also possess the capacity to be truly selfless subjectively- treating others with a sixth sense of compassion the doubters can’t access due to envelopment in the self which blocks humility. It's a great experience to go into an episode nodding along with your own prejudices and superiority and wind up swallowing your pride and glancing in the mirror, only to see what you may lack is the substance that who you've condescended to have, all within a half hour. The McBride scenes in this ep are gold too, deconstructing the "joke"/lie to hysterical proportions. The ATL reference had me dying, triggering memories from college when I was a freshman hanging out at a group of seniors' apt regularly, and they had that movie on for whatever reason in the background 24/7 every damn time! If you haven't seen it, do not look into changing that.
I also appreciated this idea getting recycled in the season finale when
SpoilerShow
Goodman throws the Jesus figurine, and all the kids point it out at which point Goodman becomes genuinely apologetic to Christ and the group pastes it back together before going after their money. It's an authentic moment where those who profit from this institutional manipulation also show true faith above all else (all the characters get their shot- McBride and Edi Patterson both make their own confessions and don't look back, unlike previous Rough House productions where the characters usually have some selfish stake, and here Goodman shows his own faith's true place in his moral hierarchy). Plus, the way the kids all go "Ooooooh" is one of the funniest bits in the series- how are they always mixing the most heartfelt with the most comical!
The final sermon is legitimately moving and a reminder that Christian principles are foundational for the sublime ethos of no-strings rehabilitation.

Oh, and in one of the later episodes, we get another classic 'prude' joke added to their arsenal
SpoilerShow
“Here's your sandwich, with extra ketchup- ya maniac!

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Re: Rough House Pictures (Jody Hill, Danny McBride, et al.)

#93 Post by bainbridgezu » Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:05 am

Glad you liked it better this time. Definitely agree that "Wicked Lips" is the best and most accomplished episode of the season. Style, theme, and performance all woven together to deepen the show's themes. I had the same experience with Kelvin, whose arc gradually became the most intriguing of the season for me. Much credit also due to Tony Cavalero's portrayal of Keefe, who could so easily be a jokey, one-note character, elevated greatly by his performance and the show's delicate writing.
SpoilerShow
The "karate person" Jesus moment was indeed pitch-perfect. All the actors do great work on their own, but the show really sings when they're grouped together. Two of my other personal favorites were the church lunch where Eli started passing out slaps and the scene near the end with all three siblings unpacking their fears and failures at Kelvin's house, alternately encouraging and insulting one another.
SpoilerShow
The ATL stuff was also gold. There are few greater pleasures than watching a cornered McBride character double (and triple, and quadruple) down on his bullshit. I haven't seen the film myself, but vividly recall a local video store stocking around 300 copies when it first came out. Thanks for the non-recommendation on that one.
I would also gladly watch Edi Patterson lose her shit in ways big and small for an entire Cassavetes-length feature.

While filming for the second season was shuttered in its first week, one thing that was apparently completed was an enormous set built especially for another flashback episode -- this time taking place about a hundred years before the main action of the series. Fair bet that will revolve around Eli's father and his ministry. Speaking of, it was, as always, a treat to see M. Emmet Walsh.

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Re: Rough House Pictures (Jody Hill, Danny McBride, et al.)

#94 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:38 pm

bainbridgezu wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:05 am
All the actors do great work on their own, but the show really sings when they're grouped together.
It's true, and this is thematically relevant to a lot of the issues put forth by this crew, and an interesting framework to measure their development. Hill and co have always been interested in how an individual struggles against their social environment, focusing acutely on that individualized experience with equal parts empathy (for the emotions) and contempt (for the behavior). At times their earlier central characters are able to bridge connections (Rogen with Wolfe in Observe and Report, Kenny Powers with various people in Eastbound and Down) but ultimately, even in "successes", they fail at truly overcoming their defective characteristics to meet these other people in the middle. In Vice Principals and The Legacy of a Whitetail Deer Hunter, the characters hit emotional bottoms and sit with them for a bit longer, and genuinely seem to lend parts of themselves towards another person for support, knowing subconsciously that they can't rely on their wills alone for success. The Righteous Gemstones is chalk full of selfish characters at odds with each other, but uses the notion of faith and Christian principles as vital supports that can provide tangible access to self-betterment. McBride's actions late in the film seem to come from a place of self-actualized morality, rather than to get anything in return like Kenny Powers could not erase from his motives on an unconscious level. Those scenes where the group forfeits the hate and selfishness to join together are moving and hilarious, but the function provides the same effect- as you allude to these actors and characters are at their very best when together. Of course they'll split from this intimacy and default back to their roles from deep-rooted family dynamics, their introspective narcissisms, and reactive needs and desires, but as Hill and McBride continue to produce work there are more moments, and a greater potency, of this optimism in finding opportunities for honest affinity between people. It's as if, as these men get older, they feel less isolated against the world, or with the world against them, and find more hope from personal experience in the possibilities life gives for social harmony.

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Re: Rough House Pictures (Jody Hill, Danny McBride, et al.)

#95 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:30 pm

I've been rewatching Vice Principals to cap off a recent Rough House Pictures binge, and it's somehow even better than I remembered. As an embodiment of our political climate in Trump's America, as mfunk aptly stated earlier in the thread and others chimed in on, it's genius (and admirably subtle in many respects, contrasting the bombastic behavior that only serves as the outer shell). The unapologetic meanness is there, but it's the way in which cutthroat individualism destroys both opportunities for kindness and also conservative ideals that makes the will for apology transparent, and is ripe for analysis. Take the brutal firing of a nice elderly employee that's done with conscious regret and guilt, but we literally watch McBride bury it as he swallows natural empathy for the New Order of Self-Advancement at all costs. Or the football game where Gamby and Russell come down on opposite sides of conservative ideologies, with Russell wanting to burn all for individualism while Gamby campaigns for the institutional allegiance, retorting with nationalism. And of course Russell's interaction with the neighbors is so painful because he's attempting to be neighborly in a pretty conservative way, while the neighbors fire back with alt-right aggression and racist explosions that nullify these courteous Christian efforts and force another kind of reaction more in line with the no-contact superiority with which the right diagnose the other party.

Gamby as a leader of students, telling the cheating girls that the world is full of hate and shit and they will grow up to contribute to it, is so depressing in both its explicitness and implicitness for how hopeless he sees the capacity for anyone -including himself- to change, just as Russell's resort to violence in his situation is emblematic of a dire last resort of cruelty (the subsequent credit-taking self-delusion is also pathetically Trump-inspired, as are all these instances in the show that pop the bubble of intimacy with grandiosity). It's no wonder the men turned out as they did. Their worst behavior is constantly reinforced by the climate, while their benevolent parts are desperately hung out to dry time and time again without support to strengthen what really made America great for these folks in a collectivistic or individualistic way. That they find some kind of warped affinity in their struggle is a beautiful friendship of two people stuck between selfish gains and their sensitivities, and I doubt there's been or ever will be a better document of the consequences of the last four years from such a humanistic lens.

At the same time, this isn't a blame-society sermon. McBride's development is encouraging to watch, but there's a key moment in season two when his self-deprecating speech to King about wanting to spare her from his defective character traits is immediately squashed and made transparent as egocentric self-pity. It may be Hill and McBride's best ever meditation on this American attitude that believes it's coming from a place of altruistic charity when it's fear-driven self-centeredness. The beautiful irony is that, per usual, they treat the expression with dilated insight; a balanced divergence of aggressive exposure and gentle empathy. Also, the reveal of Robin Shandrell's compassion is one of the most heart-wrenching scenes, period. Even if posturing at comedic exaggeration, it's totally authentic.

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Re: Vice Principals

#96 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:34 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:55 pm
Nuclear take: Vice Principals is a better show than Game of Thrones
This has aged very well!

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knives
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Re: Rough House Pictures (Jody Hill, Danny McBride, et al.)

#97 Post by knives » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:35 pm

That gets at something I’ve been thinking of lately. Just started a watch of Cheers, which is amazing, and I was trying to think of a drama from the same period that stands up as well and couldn’t. Does live action television just work better with comedies?
Last edited by knives on Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Rough House Pictures (Jody Hill, Danny McBride, et al.)

#98 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:34 pm

Nah GoT is love action at its finest

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Re: Rough House Pictures (Jody Hill, Danny McBride, et al.)

#99 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Nov 05, 2021 3:35 pm

Eric André and Jason Schwartzman will be in season two of The Righteous Gemstones

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