The Magnificent Ambersons
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- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:27 pm
- Location: London, UK
The BBFC has just classifed an "Interview with Bill Krohn" as extras for an upcoming edition of The Magnificent Ambersons from Universal. The only thing that concerns me at this point is that the Bill Krohn thing seems to be taken from the pretty dire French DVD. Fingers crossed they don't use the same gloopy analog-NTSC to PAL conversion.
Last edited by Narshty on Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:49 pm
- Location: Round Lake, Illinois USA
I have a Chinese bootleg version of the French dvd release with the front cover artwork being the same. The picture was ok looking but no better than my Criterion laserdisc or the version i taped of the cable station TCM (Turner Classic Movies). I hear that Warner Bros. is looking for a better print to release on dvd region 1.
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- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:03 am
- Location: LA CA
And now, in the correct venue:
Just noticed that an r2uk of, supposedly, Citizen Kane, Touch of Evil, and Magnificent Ambersons is listed on the MoC site as a September release from Universal. What?!
I can't seem to find confirmation of this info however. No listings at amazon, sendit, bensons, etc. Also not listed on Mr Brown's DVD list on this site.
Help?
- FilmFanSea
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:37 pm
- Location: Portland, OR
The Orson Welles Boxset is up for preorder at Movie Mail:
A collection of three features from Orson Welles, the landmark Citizen Kane, Touch of Evil, and, for the first time on UK DVD, The Magnificent Ambersons. The latter was misunderstood and consequently hacked about by RKO Studios when first released, but this immaculate period reconstruction is still a subtle and innovative film about social change at the turn of the century.
DVD Extras:
Four discs; Citizen Kane Bonus Disc including Anatomy Of A Classic – Presented by Barry Norman; What Kane Cost; Photo Gallery; Cast and Crew Profiles; Theatrical Trailer.
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- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:27 pm
- Location: London, UK
I've now got the UK disc (currently £4.99 at Play) and it's a step up from anything released so far, but still far from ideal. It's an NTSC-PAL transfer (looks far better though) and the sound is slightly crackly at points but sounds less processed and harsh than the French disc.
I've certainly noticed new things I'd never seen before with the clearer image. At the start of the ballroom sequence when Uncle John's talking loudly ("That's where they'll put the Major when his time comes!"), that's all dialogue that's been invented in post-production - I've no idea what he's mouthing but the lip movements aren't even vaguely close until he starts talking to George.
It's still the best film ever made. Scene for scene, what can top it?
I've certainly noticed new things I'd never seen before with the clearer image. At the start of the ballroom sequence when Uncle John's talking loudly ("That's where they'll put the Major when his time comes!"), that's all dialogue that's been invented in post-production - I've no idea what he's mouthing but the lip movements aren't even vaguely close until he starts talking to George.
It's still the best film ever made. Scene for scene, what can top it?
- ellipsis7
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:56 pm
- Location: Dublin
- Scharphedin2
- Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 7:37 am
- Location: Denmark/Sweden
What an opportune moment for you to bring up this film, Narshty. I have been going back and forth between Magnificent Ambersons and Citizen Kane in my mind recently with respect to the lists project. They were amongst the first '40s films I ever saw, and I have viewed both many times on laserdisc.Narshty wrote:I've now got the UK disc (currently £4.99 at Play) and it's a step up from anything released so far, but still far from ideal. It's an NTSC-PAL transfer (looks far better though) and the sound is slightly crackly at points but sounds less processed and harsh than the French disc...
It's still the best film ever made. Scene for scene, what can top it?
With Citizen Kane there is this marvelous energy, as of the wunderkind Welles taking his gigantic toy train set out for the first time, and pulling all the stops. There is something exciting about every shot, every scene, in this film. And, of course, he was given completely free reign.
Then there is The Magnificent Ambersons, which needless to say was compromised in post production, but still, even with almost half of the film as Welles shot it gone, down to individual shots truncated, and scenes filmed by other directors and inserted, there is a depth of emotion in Magnificent Ambersons that easily goes beyond that of Kane.
I have not done so in a while, but I used to take out the laserdisc of Ambersons at regular intervals to view select moments. Some that readily come to mind are that wonderful opening sequence that packs so much information about the time and setting and the history of the Ambersons into just a few minutes of screen time, with one of Welles' greatest performances ever (as the narrational voice); that long tracking shot, when we enter the Amberson mansion for the ball early in the film -- the doors swinging open to welcome the camera, with the chandelier swaying in the gust of wind from the open door; that incredible monologue by the Major about the "sun"; the backwards tracking shot that follows (if I remember correctly) as the family is thrown into grief; Agnes Moorehead's great moment late in the film in the kitchen; Tim Holt's long walk home through the changing town toward the end. I can easily agree with you that shot for shot, it is difficult to find Magnificent Ambersons cinematic peers.
Narshty, you spoke about the UK DVD release above. Are you familiar with the quality of Criterion's old laserdisc release? Do you think the UK DVD is significantly better, or, do you think there is any reason to think that something even better is on the not distant horizon?
- Awesome Welles
- Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:02 am
- Location: London
Finally - I can post messages, no one told me my account had been activated. Sorry I had to get that off my chest.
Does anyone know of the likelihood that someone will release The Magnificent Ambersons with intertitles indicating what is missing from the available cut of the film. I've never seen the Criterion LD, but from what I hear, basically a replication of that on DVD would be lovely.
Features something like:
Including a cut as close as possible to Welles's intentions with the mentioned intertitles, the RKO cut (in comparison, on a second disc) Commentary by Jonathan Rosenbaum, James Naremore, V.F. Perkins or Joseph McBride (whoever is available or has the most expertise in this area). An introduction by Peter Bogdanovich (just to give him something to do). A newly produced featurette examining a look at Welles's original vision and script with a look at story boards and how the scenes might have looked, plus an examination of whatever material may still be available, production stills etc. A reprint of Robert Carringer's wonderful book 'The Magnificent Ambersons: A Reconstruction'.
Does anyone know of the likelihood that someone will release The Magnificent Ambersons with intertitles indicating what is missing from the available cut of the film. I've never seen the Criterion LD, but from what I hear, basically a replication of that on DVD would be lovely.
Features something like:
Including a cut as close as possible to Welles's intentions with the mentioned intertitles, the RKO cut (in comparison, on a second disc) Commentary by Jonathan Rosenbaum, James Naremore, V.F. Perkins or Joseph McBride (whoever is available or has the most expertise in this area). An introduction by Peter Bogdanovich (just to give him something to do). A newly produced featurette examining a look at Welles's original vision and script with a look at story boards and how the scenes might have looked, plus an examination of whatever material may still be available, production stills etc. A reprint of Robert Carringer's wonderful book 'The Magnificent Ambersons: A Reconstruction'.
- skuhn8
- Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:46 pm
- Location: Chico, CA
I wholeheartedly second an edition like the one you suggest, but I would like to see a branching feature that allows us to watch the film as it exists or to view it with documentary insight where scenes are missing.FSimeoni wrote:An introduction by Peter Bogdanovich (just to give him something to do).
But the Bogdanovich comment just gave me a much needed chuckle. You pretty much can't do anything Lang or Welles related without Cpt. Ascot in attendance. I always picture him with his cute little handkerchief wrapped around his neck and a Radio Shack single speaker tape player clutched to his chest outside the studio like Syd Barrett waiting for one last ride outside Abbey Road.
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- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:49 pm
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- Awesome Welles
- Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:02 am
- Location: London
I agree entirely. My thoughts were when I outlined suggested special features were to have a newly produced documentary on the subject, but your suggestion brews an idea in my mind, it would be a great feature to be able to not only watch a new documentary on its own but also to be able to splice relevant sections of the documentary into the feature. So where we might come to a section of the film that is missing we cut to the documentary where we see a five minute retrospective look into what should be there then cut back to the film and so on...skuhn8 wrote:I wholeheartedly second an edition like the one you suggest, but I would like to see a branching feature that allows us to watch the film as it exists or to view it with documentary insight where scenes are missing.FSimeoni wrote:An introduction by Peter Bogdanovich (just to give him something to do).
- kinjitsu
- Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:39 pm
- Location: Uffa!
- tavernier
- Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:18 pm
Isn't it sad that Syd is gone and Capt. Ascot is still haunting our Criterion discs?skuhn8 wrote:But the Bogdanovich comment just gave me a much needed chuckle. You pretty much can't do anything Lang or Welles related without Cpt. Ascot in attendance. I always picture him with his cute little handkerchief wrapped around his neck and a Radio Shack single speaker tape player clutched to his chest outside the studio like Syd Barrett waiting for one last ride outside Abbey Road.
- BenCheshire
- Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:19 am
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- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:27 pm
- Location: London, UK
Oh, I wish. More than once I've been on the verge of buying a laserdisc player simply to get that disc.Scharphedin2 wrote:Narshty, you spoke about the UK DVD release above. Are you familiar with the quality of Criterion's old laserdisc release?
Warner's will trounce it, I've no doubt of that. However, the idea that some sort of reconstruction should "replace" the current version is a horrible one. This is the movie we've got, and all the storyboards and voiceovers and daydreaming in the world isn't going to change that, nor should it. Even if all the scenes were found, the movie will remain permanently unfinished - Welles never got beyond a preview rough cut. It's imperfect, but its damaged status makes the good stuff in it all the more precious.Scharphedin2 wrote:Do you think the UK DVD is significantly better, or, do you think there is any reason to think that something even better is on the not distant horizon?
I think my favourite scene is Uncle Jack's goodbye to George at the train station - it's one of the best and most moving speeches in any movie ever.
- ellipsis7
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:56 pm
- Location: Dublin
To get an idea of how the film evolved, I watch the Universal disc while following it through reading Robert Carringer's The Magnificent Ambersons: A Reconstruction at the same time... That's the closest we'll get to Welles' intentions, and even then it's not his absolutely definitive cut - he himself changed some stuff after previews - this script is the Cutting Continuity of March 12, 1942, with subsequent changes indicated by Carringer, including the recuts and reshoots that didn't involve Welles...
- Dr. Snaut
- Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:53 pm
Re: The Magnificent Ambersons
Are there any plans for this to be released on R1? I have read this thread and it does mention how WB was supposed to release the film in 2008, which clearly has not happened yet. I need this film in my collection so badly it hurts.
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- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:49 pm
- Location: Round Lake, Illinois USA
Re: The Magnificent Ambersons
I think Warner Bros. is still working on this for 2009 release and trying to find the best print of the film. Maybe they need more time for the extras since there is a lot on the making and botched release of the film? I do have the Criterion laserdiscs of the film and the print used by Criterion is in good shape but would love to see it on dvd or blu-ray!
- Matt
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:58 pm
Re: The Magnificent Ambersons
The official word from Warner Bros. (according to the March 23, 2009 Home Theater Forum chat with Warner Bros. Home Video) is this: "AMBERSONS is still in the development stages...our plans for supplementary materials require much more time (and money) than expected."
- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
- Location: SLC, UT
Re: The Magnificent Ambersons
Why doesn't Warner turn this over to Criterion?
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- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:49 pm
- Location: Round Lake, Illinois USA
Re: The Magnificent Ambersons
Poor Orson....29 years after his death he still has a hard time having his movies released for the public to see in his own country like Ambersons or Chimes at Midnight for the dvd market.
- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
- Location: SLC, UT
Re: The Magnificent Ambersons
Not to mention the fact that most kids today couldn't even tell you who Unicron is. Sad times we're living in.
- Dr. Snaut
- Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:53 pm
Re: The Magnificent Ambersons
This film clearly does not appeal to the average lay person as much as it does to people on this forum. But considering how important this film is in relation to the history of cinema, it is appalling that Warners has held out as long as it has releasing this film. And the funniest thing about it is that they will probably screw up with at least one aspect of the dvd.
The only company I could trust with this title and its extras is Criterion. Sad but true.
The only company I could trust with this title and its extras is Criterion. Sad but true.