The House That Jack Built (Lars von Trier, 2018)

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mfunk9786
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Re: The House That Jack Built (Lars von Trier, 2018)

#251 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:41 pm

dda1996a wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:39 pm
I was fairly sure though you can't show children getting shot on screen so assumed it wasn't shown in any version.
Anyway I found this to be both disturbing as a film (every way as brutal and nauseating as Angst), and as one of the saddest confessions by a filmmaker as a way of trying to understand himself. I can't find the right word to attach to this film, but I found it very disturbing and moving at the same time (no easy feat), with only the ending kind of not working as well for me.
Who would be the governing body stating that a child can't be shown being shot in a film, again?

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Re: The House That Jack Built (Lars von Trier, 2018)

#252 Post by domino harvey » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:43 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:36 pm
Not sure whether you liked the film, swo, but from what you describe, I would say the cuts are much more significant than I thought. Especially just from a tonal perspective,
SpoilerShow
the scene with the boys is about as good a job as von Trier does of showing how utterly contemptible and entertainment-free the acts that Jack is committing are. Watching the mother forced to feed her son is tragic on the level of much of the less absurd emotionally raw set-ups in von Trier's filmography
He's listed it as his number four favorite film of the year, so I'm sure for the both of us

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Re: The House That Jack Built (Lars von Trier, 2018)

#253 Post by dda1996a » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:55 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:41 pm
dda1996a wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:39 pm
I was fairly sure though you can't show children getting shot on screen so assumed it wasn't shown in any version.
Anyway I found this to be both disturbing as a film (every way as brutal and nauseating as Angst), and as one of the saddest confessions by a filmmaker as a way of trying to understand himself. I can't find the right word to attach to this film, but I found it very disturbing and moving at the same time (no easy feat), with only the ending kind of not working as well for me.
Who would be the governing body stating that a child can't be shown being shot in a film, again?
Don't push me over the edge, coming at me like that!
As I wrote, I thought there was a law that said so (I know for sure there is one in video games where you can't shoot children), but I guess there isn't. Can't remember watching a film where a child is shown getting murdered on screen.

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Re: The House That Jack Built (Lars von Trier, 2018)

#254 Post by swo17 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:58 pm

I was strangely disengaged at first but the end of the 2nd incident won me over

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domino harvey
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Re: The House That Jack Built (Lars von Trier, 2018)

#255 Post by domino harvey » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:59 pm

dda1996a wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:55 pm
mfunk9786 wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:41 pm
dda1996a wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:39 pm
I was fairly sure though you can't show children getting shot on screen so assumed it wasn't shown in any version.
Anyway I found this to be both disturbing as a film (every way as brutal and nauseating as Angst), and as one of the saddest confessions by a filmmaker as a way of trying to understand himself. I can't find the right word to attach to this film, but I found it very disturbing and moving at the same time (no easy feat), with only the ending kind of not working as well for me.
Who would be the governing body stating that a child can't be shown being shot in a film, again?
Don't push me over the edge, coming at me like that!
As I wrote, I thought there was a law that said so (I know for sure there is one in video games where you can't shoot children), but I guess there isn't. Can't remember watching a film where a child is shown getting murdered on screen.
I had the displeasure of watching Gerard Depardieu shoot Jane Birkin, two small children, and a baby with a shotgun a few months ago via 1975's Sept morts sur ordonnance (not a spoiler, that happens in the first fifteen minutes of the film) in graphic, gory detail, so there's not anything new to it either

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Re: The House That Jack Built (Lars von Trier, 2018)

#256 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:01 pm

dda1996a wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:55 pm
I know for sure there is one in video games where you can't shoot children
Huh?

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knives
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Re: The House That Jack Built (Lars von Trier, 2018)

#257 Post by knives » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:02 pm

dda1996a wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:55 pm
mfunk9786 wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:41 pm
dda1996a wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:39 pm
I was fairly sure though you can't show children getting shot on screen so assumed it wasn't shown in any version.
Anyway I found this to be both disturbing as a film (every way as brutal and nauseating as Angst), and as one of the saddest confessions by a filmmaker as a way of trying to understand himself. I can't find the right word to attach to this film, but I found it very disturbing and moving at the same time (no easy feat), with only the ending kind of not working as well for me.
Who would be the governing body stating that a child can't be shown being shot in a film, again?
Don't push me over the edge, coming at me like that!
As I wrote, I thought there was a law that said so (I know for sure there is one in video games where you can't shoot children), but I guess there isn't. Can't remember watching a film where a child is shown getting murdered on screen.
In what country? You can definitely shoot kids in video games in America.

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Never Cursed
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Re: The House That Jack Built (Lars von Trier, 2018)

#258 Post by Never Cursed » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:08 pm

dda1996a wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:55 pm
Don't push me over the edge, coming at me like that!
As I wrote, I thought there was a law that said so (I know for sure there is one in video games where you can't shoot children), but I guess there isn't. Can't remember watching a film where a child is shown getting murdered on screen.
I think that has more to do with pretty universal cultural norms a lot more so than laws - I can think of a few movies (and certainly several video games) with violent child death/murder.

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Re: The House That Jack Built (Lars von Trier, 2018)

#259 Post by Big Ben » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:09 pm

John Carpenter had a child get shot on screen in 1976 in Assault on Precint 13 and while that certainly caused some "issues" at the time it never amounted to more than the usual transitory outrage. You can shoot whoever you want on camera and in some cases, like Peckinpah films, you can shoot live animals (The UK would ban that though.).
Last edited by Big Ben on Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The House That Jack Built (Lars von Trier, 2018)

#260 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:09 pm

Well you definitely are not allowed by law to show a child being murdered on a cereal box


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Re: The House That Jack Built (Lars von Trier, 2018)

#262 Post by FrauBlucher » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:49 pm

At least it’ll look good on child actor’s resume.

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Re: The House That Jack Built (Lars von Trier, 2018)

#263 Post by swo17 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:37 pm

SpoilerShow
I just checked again and you do actually see the mom put some pie up to one kid's mouth. Then it cuts away, and there's some psychological abuse from Jack until he lets her have a headstart before shooting her down.

Also, for the taxidermy itself you mostly just see closeups of Jack's face and tame shots of him fitting sticks to limbs. Then the gruesome reveal of Grumpy's preserved face.

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Skrmng Skll Th Thd
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Re: The House That Jack Built (Lars von Trier, 2018)

#264 Post by Skrmng Skll Th Thd » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:24 pm

dda1996a wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:55 pm
mfunk9786 wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:41 pm
dda1996a wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:39 pm
I was fairly sure though you can't show children getting shot on screen so assumed it wasn't shown in any version.
Anyway I found this to be both disturbing as a film (every way as brutal and nauseating as Angst), and as one of the saddest confessions by a filmmaker as a way of trying to understand himself. I can't find the right word to attach to this film, but I found it very disturbing and moving at the same time (no easy feat), with only the ending kind of not working as well for me.
Who would be the governing body stating that a child can't be shown being shot in a film, again?
Don't push me over the edge, coming at me like that!
As I wrote, I thought there was a law that said so (I know for sure there is one in video games where you can't shoot children), but I guess there isn't. Can't remember watching a film where a child is shown getting murdered on screen.
Why would it be all right to show children killing adults (in hundreds if not thousands of films) but not all right to show adults killing children, or children killing other children?

This is America, dude, learn the rules.

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Re: The House That Jack Built (Lars von Trier, 2018)

#265 Post by furbicide » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:18 pm

Man I'm torn on whether or not to see this film. I love Von Trier and have seen every one of his films so far (except for The Kingdom), but I struggle with violence in films as it is – let alone with stuff as awful and grotesque as what's being described here – and the serial killer premise doesn't interest me at all. I am very interested in the Dante's Inferno framing device, on the other hand. :(

All I can say is, Lars had better have something nicer in mind for his next film. A bit of garden-variety self-mutilation, apocalyptic disaster and psychological torment is totally fine in my books.

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Re: The House That Jack Built (Lars von Trier, 2018)

#266 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:41 pm

furbicide wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:18 pm
Man I'm torn on whether or not to see this film. I love Von Trier and have seen every one of his films so far (except for The Kingdom), but I struggle with violence in films as it is – let alone with stuff as awful and grotesque as what's being described here – and the serial killer premise doesn't interest me at all. I am very interested in the Dante's Inferno framing device, on the other hand. :(

All I can say is, Lars had better have something nicer in mind for his next film. A bit of garden-variety self-mutilation, apocalyptic disaster and psychological torment is totally fine in my books.
It's a tough one, but the violence isn't as viscerally upsetting as it is in Antichrist. If anything, it's a little cold and clinical, and it's the emotional terror it creates that is what will upset you. Small consolation, I know.

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Re: The House That Jack Built (Lars von Trier, 2018)

#267 Post by Never Cursed » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:56 pm

furbicide wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:18 pm
Man I'm torn on whether or not to see this film. I love Von Trier and have seen every one of his films so far (except for The Kingdom), but I struggle with violence in films as it is – let alone with stuff as awful and grotesque as what's being described here – and the serial killer premise doesn't interest me at all. I am very interested in the Dante's Inferno framing device, on the other hand. :(

All I can say is, Lars had better have something nicer in mind for his next film. A bit of garden-variety self-mutilation, apocalyptic disaster and psychological torment is totally fine in my books.
As mfunk said, I wouldn't say that what violence there is (the movie has surprisingly little violence for something of this premise) is disturbing in a traditional horror-movie sense. A lack of interest in the idea of following a serial killer is also far from a deal-breaker here, given how much this movie distances itself from the ideas and storylines that many if not most movies about serial killers use - this isn't a "serial killer movie" so much as it is a wild black comedy/character study/film essay about art.

And I must say, Skrmng Skll, I'm not always sure what you're trying to say in your posts either

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Re: The House That Jack Built (Lars von Trier, 2018)

#268 Post by Big Ben » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:33 am

Never Cursed wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:56 pm
As mfunk said, I wouldn't say that what violence there is (the movie has surprisingly little violence for something of this premise) is disturbing in a traditional horror-movie sense. A lack of interest in the idea of following a serial killer is also far from a deal-breaker here, given how much this movie distances itself from the ideas and storylines that many if not most movies about serial killers use - this isn't a "serial killer movie" so much as it is a wild black comedy/character study/film essay about art.
Now see that's very interesting. I was under the impression that this film was two and a half hours of butchery because that's all the people on Twitter have lead me to believe it is. I've seen some positive reactions for sure but most folks don't do a deep dive into what's actually occupying those two hours and instead focus on, well it's more audacious content. Thanks for this post.

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Re: The House That Jack Built (Lars von Trier, 2018)

#269 Post by dda1996a » Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:11 am

I feel like most reviews aren't really trying to meet this film on a middle ground. This is honestly way less violent than most R rated action films (it's the situations and sheer terror that gets you), and all the calls of misogyny are extremely wrongheaded. Having knowledge of Von Trier's work and personal history helps read the five incidents more clearly.
Can't see where he can go on from here

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Re: The House That Jack Built (Lars von Trier, 2018)

#270 Post by black&huge » Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:35 am

mfunk9786 wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:39 pm
I think you're way off on that - the film isn't some unwatchable provocation, it's not as shocking as Antichrist or working toward those same horror film aims. Structurally it's sort of more of a video essay than anything, in no way does it play like something made to push the limits to shock and repel anyone
I had the expectation of it being something more already since I didn't trust a single negative review since Cannes til now because everyone complained about the same things while missing every other thing the film was actually trying to show. Those are the kinds of people I was talking about. Not a single one really reviewed the film they chose to focus on the superficial aspects that constitute what a "serial killer movie" is known for: misogyny and violence.

I may type out a few days from now my full thoughts but Trier went all out on this I feel and I think it's one of his best. Basically whatever complaint there was about this film I felt it was the opposite. I actually wonder how so many people took it out of context considering it more or less spells out its entire mission statement throughout. It's not a hard film to analyze but there is just so much stuff Trier was doing here.

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Re: The House That Jack Built (Lars von Trier, 2018)

#271 Post by swo17 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:36 am

dda1996a wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:11 am
all the calls of misogyny are extremely wrongheaded
I mean, all of the female victims in this film are presented as being pretty stupid, simple, or clueless (and one of them even asking for it) but the film directly addresses this. As Roger Ebert always said, it's not what a film's about but how it's about it.

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Re: The House That Jack Built (Lars von Trier, 2018)

#272 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:56 am

We see Jack's victims through his eyes and through our own simultaneously. If you find it repellent how he sees them, you're supposed to

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Re: The House That Jack Built (Lars von Trier, 2018)

#273 Post by dda1996a » Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:14 pm

swo17 wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:36 am
dda1996a wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:11 am
all the calls of misogyny are extremely wrongheaded
I mean, all of the female victims in this film are presented as being pretty stupid, simple, or clueless (and one of them even asking for it) but the film directly addresses this. As Roger Ebert always said, it's not what a film's about but how it's about it.
But if viewed as "art" and Jack as Von Trier, it is portrayed differently. I don't remember exactly her words, but the fourth incident felt to me more him thinking that he is so beyond other people, he can't forge any real connections with people.
It's how you choose to watch this film, but even if viewed inside the diegesis, Jack as Mfunk says views them like that, while also saying he chose those four incidents out of many others. I think it says a bit that the final incident has only men in it.

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Re: The House That Jack Built (Lars von Trier, 2018)

#274 Post by mfunk9786 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:30 am

This bit from an Indiewire interview with Matt Dillon goes a long way toward explaining not just the way the female victims are portrayed in the film, but how to view it in order to get closest to what von Trier is aiming at by making it in the first place:
SpoilerShow
Image
Also becoming apparent on a second viewing how much Dillon deserves an Oscar nomination for this. Perhaps the least attainable deserved nomination the history of the Academy Awards.

EDIT: Meant to add this last night but the editing in the R-rated version is significant with regard to the violence. I don't know if there's a single incident that is spared, save the first and fifth, from some sort of cutting away from/editing in something uncomfortable. But Incidents 3 and 4 are definitely butchered compared to the director's cut. I think it's a situation where if you've never seen the film at all, it's fine to view the R-rated cut, but if you've seen it already, you're probably going to be one and done with the neutered version until the director's cut re-emerges.

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Re: The House That Jack Built (Lars von Trier, 2018)

#275 Post by black&huge » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:27 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:30 am
EDIT: Meant to add this last night but the editing in the R-rated version is significant with regard to the violence. I don't know if there's a single incident that is spared, save the first and fifth, from some sort of cutting away from/editing in something uncomfortable. But Incidents 3 and 4 are definitely butchered compared to the director's cut. I think it's a situation where if you've never seen the film at all, it's fine to view the R-rated cut, but if you've seen it already, you're probably going to be one and done with the neutered version until the director's cut re-emerges.
SpoilerShow
trying to piece together from just what I've read over the past few months but the only things I feel I'm 99% sure about is that there are impact shots of the bullets hitting the children, the actual showing of the mother feeding the children's corpses (or just a single child) and showing in detail Jack cutting off Simple's breasts.

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