Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)
- mfunk9786
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)
Should we just ditch the ellipsis for forum purposes as a way of resolving this once and for all?
- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)
I'm not necessarily trying to change this thread's title, just get comfortable with what I'm going to call this thing for the rest of my life
- furbicide
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- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)
I wasn't but I like the connection
- Luke M
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)
Re: the Great Escape
On second viewing, I appreciated the Sharon Tate scenes a great deal more.
SpoilerShow
I saw the movie again tonight, in the scene Rick mentions that he never auditioned for the part nor met the director John Sturges.
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)
Regarding the specific in your spoiler: Yep I only caught this on my second viewing as well
- swo17
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)
SpoilerShow
I'm well aware and I stand by my reading of that scene. He's lying because he's embarrassed about it.
- Cold Bishop
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)
I must admit I leaned towards swo interpretation; the fact that Rick is clearly awkward in the role and his performance, versus his triumph later, kind of pulls it away from fantasy projection.
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- mfunk9786
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)
swo17 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:21 ambeamish14 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:14 amI'm really fascinated by the use of visual effects in this, which were supervised by the great John Dykstra.
In particular, one sequenceSpoilerShowwith Dalton mentally casting himself inside of The Great Escape is very reminiscent of Forrest Gump, a film that Tarantino is a huge admirer ofSpoilerShowI took this scene a different way--in the reality of this film, Dalton was actually originally cast in The Great Escape and shot at least that one scene for it but they decided he wasn't working and recast him with McQueen, to Dalton's great shame
SpoilerShow
I don't know how I missed your post of this reading the first time around, but yeah, this seems like as good as reading as any. That said, I find it hard to believe that Dalton could keep that kind of secret from the press, let alone the rest of the acting community.
- Murdoch
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)
This is how I read it. Rick looks visibly uncomfortable talking about the movie and
SpoilerShow
wouldn't it be more embarrassing for an actor to have filmed your scenes for a movie then the director decides you're not right for the role after going through the painstaking process of shooting a scene? That certainly seems much worse to me than not getting a part.
- aox
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)
You'd have to ask Erik Stoltz and Robert Zemeckis.
- Luke M
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)
Cold Bishop wrote:I must admit I leaned towards swo interpretation; the fact that Rick is clearly awkward in the role and his performance, versus his triumph later, kind of pulls it away from fantasy projection.
SpoilerShow
My take is that it's a fantasy like Cliff's fantasy about Bruce Lee. I like how the scene contrasts the Sharon Tate movie theater scene where that isn't shown with Margot Robbie because it's real and not a fantasy. Anyway, that's my interpretation.
- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)
SpoilerShow
The Bruce Lee scene isn't a fantasy either, other than in the sense that this is a movie and it literally didn't happen in real life
- mfunk9786
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)
Agreed - this stance is driving me crazy, there is zero evidence that any scene in this film is represented to the viewer as merely a daydream
- swo17
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)
SpoilerShow
Also, the point of not inserting Robbie into the Tate film is out of respect for her/to help rehabilitate her public image as more than just a murder victim, which is sort of the whole point of the entire movie
- mfunk9786
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)
Tarantino has now done what I would classify as "major" revisionist histories three times, four if you count The Hateful Eight (which I wouldn't, really) - and not one of them was constructed around any kind of "it was all a dream!" fantasy. This one isn't either. What we are watching is occurring straight-ahead within the universe of the film.
SpoilerShow
Even after Cliff smokes the acid dipped cigarette, we never see anything from his POV
- Luke M
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)
I choose to believe in the fantasy portions of the movie cause otherwise all the criticism about Lee's portrayal are indeed correct.
- Brian C
- I hate to be That Pedantic Guy but...
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)
I don’t think that the Lee sequence can possibly be read as a “fantasy” but it is straightforwardly presented as Cliff’s own personal flashback and therefore from his point of view. So it’s not unreasonable to think that we’re seeing it the way he remembers it, and as with anyone’s memory, it’s fair to question the reliability of the rememberer.
- mfunk9786
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)
But Cliff isn't present for half of the flashback, so how is it presented as his own personal flashback? Were it his, we wouldn't see inside the trailer.
- Brian C
- I hate to be That Pedantic Guy but...
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)
Rick told him about the conversation so he remembers it that way.
- mfunk9786
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)
Which we don't see, nor do we hear alluded to - so I'll choose not to make up my own stories so I don't have to feel problematic for liking something (I thought the Lee scene was delightful in any context) and take the one I've been given
- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)
I agree and I'm good with Walter Chaw's take that finding the Lee scene "problematic" is itself racist.
I'm glad a clearly talented Asian man got to have a distinctive role in such a high profile film portraying a legend that he has idolized since his youth. I am sorry Shannon Lee felt uncomfortable in the theater though.
I'm glad a clearly talented Asian man got to have a distinctive role in such a high profile film portraying a legend that he has idolized since his youth. I am sorry Shannon Lee felt uncomfortable in the theater though.
- Brian C
- I hate to be That Pedantic Guy but...
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)
Relax, I don’t think you or anyone else has to feel problematic about it either way, and I liked the scene too.mfunk9786 wrote:Which we don't see, nor do we hear alluded to - so I'll choose not to make up my own stories so I don't have to feel problematic for liking something (I thought the Lee scene was delightful in any context) and take the one I've been given
But to not see it as Cliff’s memory, you have to ignore that it’s straightforwardly presented that way. He thinks about Rick telling him that it was pointless asking for work, then he stares out into space, then we get the whole flashback sequence, then back to the present, where Cliff chuckles to himself and says, “that’s about right” in reference to it being pointless to ask about work for him.
What is that if not a memory? He all but scratches his chin and says, “I remember it like it was yesterday!” over wavy flashback lines. It’s not really hugely important, and it may even be that Tarantino didn’t really think through this aspect of the film’s structure as a result. But people have two legs to stand on if they want to interpret it as a subjective scene - at best it’s ambiguous.