James Bond Franchise (1962-∞)

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therewillbeblus
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Re: James Bond Franchise (1962-∞)

#651 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:45 pm

Yep, there are more exaggerated ones out there, but yeah. We did get the first car corkscrew on the bridge ever I think, and Christopher Lee, so it's fine tho

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Re: James Bond Franchise (1962-∞)

#652 Post by cdnchris » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:43 pm

I'm a huge Bond fan but the Moore ones have aged the worst, at least in cheesiness, because of shit like that and characters like the racist sheriff, who they thankfully dropped as a recurring one. Having Lee as a villain is a no-brainer, just too bad it is in one of the worst films. But For Your Eyes Only, and even The Spy Who Loved Me, are good, with the former being one of my all-time favourites, despite it changing things up a bit (like the fact they twist who the villain is midway through).
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Moore kicking the car off the cliff is also one of the coldest things the character has ever done in the films.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: James Bond Franchise (1962-∞)

#653 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:52 pm

Yeah that moment is great in a savage way. The Spy Who Loved Me is incredibly entertaining and a fan-favorite due mostly to the wonderful supporting cast of creative villains, but over time it definitely lost its standing among the greats for me, even if it is one of the better Moores. I agree those are easily his two best- I absolutely hate A View to a Kill, and despite Walken's presence it's easily the worst Bond for me. Stuff like Octopussy and Moonraker (Michael Lonsdale!) are pretty awful but I don't hate them, the latter sucks in particular because of Jaws' transformation through love but within the internal logic of the series it would be funny if it wasn't given so much screen time. I actually don't mind The Man with the Golden Gun, often cited as one of the worst; it's not good though, and neither is Live and Let Die which is one of his more celebrated (though as far as outrageous villain deaths go, you can't beat it).

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tenia
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Re: James Bond Franchise (1962-∞)

#654 Post by tenia » Fri Feb 28, 2020 5:07 am

The Spy Who Loved Me also is a nice change in terms of villain's motivation, and quite an interesting one to revisit decades later.
I also quite liked revisiting For Your Eyes Only, but when I bought the Bond 50 set about 10 years ago, I started revisiting the Bond I watched the least and I forgot why I watched these the least : because they're just quite awful. Octopussy, for some reason, was a Bond I was watching a lot as a kid, but oh my god it's awful. Moonraker is only slightly better, but that's just because it's over-the-top silly altogether. A View to a Kill felt all over the place, Walken being quite bad in his villain role and Jones feeling poorly used despite a not-too-bad character. I have pretty much no memories of Live and Let Die so I guess it's just mediocre, and I'm realising I haven't revisited The Man with the Golden Gun at all.

It still doesn't beat Brosnan's Tomorrow Never Dies, which is so dull I stopped it after 45 minutes or so and never resumed it since.

Orlac
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Re: James Bond Franchise (1962-∞)

#655 Post by Orlac » Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:32 am

Finch wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:37 pm
therewillbeblus wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:23 pm
Also Moore gave us this
is that "whoopie" (for the lack of a better word) sound effect as the car goes over part of the actual sound design?! If so, wow.
Judging from the soundtrack album, it's John Barry's doing!

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Dr Amicus
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Re: James Bond Franchise (1962-∞)

#656 Post by Dr Amicus » Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:00 am

As we're off to London around Easter, I've promised my son a trip to the BFI IMAX cinema to see the new one (and not using him as an excuse to go, no sirree). He'd never seen a Bond film until recently, as a gentle, light starter we went for The Spy Who Loved Me and Moonraker, the latter being the first I got to see at a cinema when it came out. He enjoyed both of them well enough, and the gondola sequence in Moonraker got a big laugh, but he hasn't been getting the discs out and watching them for himself (unlike, eg, the Back to the Future sequels or the Batman films). Probably You Only Live Twice next, it's long been a favourite of mine and my son is interested in Japan, before starting with the Craigs.

Incidentally, many years back I got to see Thunderball at the NFT - the print wasn't the best (it was, IIRC, a patchwork of several prints) but generally solid and the underwater sequences were absolutely stunning on the big screen.

Mitt Outsound
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Re: James Bond Franchise (1962-∞)

#657 Post by Mitt Outsound » Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:01 pm

Historically the Bond producers toyed with serializing the films from the beginning. From Russia with Love is a direct sequel to Dr No (as opposed to Bond's next adventure). The central story of From Russia with Love is SPECTRE's elaborate plot of revenge to kill James Bond for his thwarting their extortion scheme and killing their operative Dr No in the previous film.

As to Bond "dealing with demons and angst" that was established in the Fleming novel You Only Live Twice, where Bond is out to kill Blofeld to avenge the murder of his wife.

I would also argue that there's a bit of License to Kill-type emotion in Goldfinger, though Connery plays it very subtly, it smolders just underneath the surface. His desire to take down Goldfinger becomes very personal due to the murders of Jill Masterson (dead from the gold paint) and her sister Tilly (killed outside Goldfinger's factory in Switzerland). Look at Connery's reaction when he finds Tilly Masterson dead. Even though Bond's character is a cold-blooded, ruthless professional, when he finds her dead he looks pissed. And early in the film M berates Bond, "This isn't a personal vendetta, double-o-seven. It's an assignment like any other. And it you can't treat it as such, coldly and objectively, then double-o-eight can replace you."

As to Marvelizing the Bond franchise. The producers would need to make films featuring Felix Leiter, Moneypenny, Jaws (turned good guy), Pussy Galore, Anya Amasova, etc. in their own adventures and then bring them all together in an epic showdown with SPECTRE. (In the 1960s Broccoli and Saltzman missed the opportunity to bring Harry Palmer into the Bond universe.)

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Re: James Bond Franchise (1962-∞)

#658 Post by Nasir007 » Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:47 pm

I would categorize these as “loose connections” - a take it or leave it proposition. They don’t affect your comprehension of the films and the order in which you can watch them. The films remain standalone adventures. It isn’t one long story narrated over 4-5 films.

Spectre I felt demanded knowledge of earlier films and this one seems to be in that mold even more so.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: James Bond Franchise (1962-∞)

#659 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:18 pm

Mitt Outsound wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:01 pm
I would also argue that there's a bit of License to Kill-type emotion in Goldfinger, though Connery plays it very subtly, it smolders just underneath the surface. His desire to take down Goldfinger becomes very personal due to the murders of Jill Masterson (dead from the gold paint) and her sister Tilly (killed outside Goldfinger's factory in Switzerland). Look at Connery's reaction when he finds Tilly Masterson dead. Even though Bond's character is a cold-blooded, ruthless professional, when he finds her dead he looks pissed. And early in the film M berates Bond, "This isn't a personal vendetta, double-o-seven. It's an assignment like any other. And it you can't treat it as such, coldly and objectively, then double-o-eight can replace you."
Good observation, part of why I love Connery is his embrace of the campy persona but he also has that subtle emotional pull especially in this film but really across all of the first five to some degree. There is a range of emotion within his confident composure, but he sweats, shows anxiety, and anger plenty of times as he perceives injustice. Connery is all around the most passionate Bond, and probably why I don’t love Moore because he seems to lack this quality despite embracing the joke of the character well.

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Monterey Jack
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Re: James Bond Franchise (1962-∞)

#660 Post by Monterey Jack » Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:33 am

Nasir007 wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:47 pm
I would categorize these as “loose connections” - a take it or leave it proposition. They don’t affect your comprehension of the films and the order in which you can watch them. The films remain standalone adventures. It isn’t one long story narrated over 4-5 films.
This used to be a pre-requisite for movie franchises, particularly of the action/adventure persuasion...each installment had to function so a viewer who hadn't seen the previous installment(s) could still follow the basic story fine, and the movie would have a distinct beginning, middle and end. Now movie franchises work as television writ large...nothing is properly resolved, because the next one is coming out in a couple of years (or months, if it's the MCU) that will continue the story. You used to be able to roll out for the latest Bond movie, or installment in the Dirty Harry, Indiana Jones, Lethal Weapon or Die Hard franchises, and it wasn't necessary if you hadn't seen the last film. Now you're forced to do "homework" by binging every previous installment just to remember where the story left off.

That's what was most infuriating about Spectre...it retconned Skyfall so that
SpoilerShow
Javier Bardem's villain was actually in the employ of Christoph Waltz the whole time
, which makes ZERO logical sense. It was clear that Skyfall was intended as a one-off adventure following the widely-disliked Quantum Of Solace (which was the first Bond movie where, had you not seen the previous installment, would be all-but-impossible to follow, playing as a poorly-constructed "appendix" to Casino Royale), but the producers made the illogical decision to double down on a bad bet by trying to force an overarching narrative connecting all of the Craig films.

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DarkImbecile
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Re: James Bond Franchise (1962-∞)

#661 Post by DarkImbecile » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:41 pm


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therewillbeblus
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Re: James Bond Franchise (1962-∞)

#662 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:45 pm

Well at least it’s going to be released in its expected month

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swo17
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Re: James Bond Franchise (1962-∞)

#663 Post by swo17 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:56 pm

Maybe this will leave him enough time to die now

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therewillbeblus
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Re: James Bond Franchise (1962-∞)

#664 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:47 pm

Monterey Jack wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:33 am
That's what was most infuriating about Spectre...it retconned Skyfall so that
SpoilerShow
Javier Bardem's villain was actually in the employ of Christoph Waltz the whole time
, which makes ZERO logical sense. It was clear that Skyfall was intended as a one-off adventure following the widely-disliked Quantum Of Solace (which was the first Bond movie where, had you not seen the previous installment, would be all-but-impossible to follow, playing as a poorly-constructed "appendix" to Casino Royale), but the producers made the illogical decision to double down on a bad bet by trying to force an overarching narrative connecting all of the Craig films.
I get that frustration since I also believe Skyfall functioned best as its own outlier of peeling back Bond's vulnerabilities into his past, an unexpected left hook in an otherwise leisurely canon of expected threats and the available skill sets to confront them. But SPECTRE was the organization that employed and issued villains back from the beginning of the Connerys so it didn't feel out of step, because at the end of the day the 'head boss' isn't necessarily going to be more equipped to puncture one's Achilles heel than an employed specialist who also has a personal link to spark some vengeance. They could have just done a better job with making SPECTRE actually more threatening to live up to its menacing global mass by taking the sensitive space that was attacked in the previous film and twisting the knife.

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Monterey Jack
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Re: James Bond Franchise (1962-∞)

#665 Post by Monterey Jack » Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:13 pm

DarkImbecile wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:41 pm
Delayed until November
Image

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flyonthewall2983
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Re: James Bond Franchise (1962-∞)

#666 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:34 pm

I think the COVID stuff is just an excuse to delay post-production, which wouldn't be a bad idea considering Hans Zimmer was brought in at nearly the last minute. The time they have now could be enough to smooth over any rough edges.

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Monterey Jack
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Re: James Bond Franchise (1962-∞)

#667 Post by Monterey Jack » Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:44 pm

If they shave a half-hour off the insanely bloated runtime, the delay might be worth it.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: James Bond Franchise (1962-∞)

#668 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:06 pm

I hope they make it longer

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Finch
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Re: James Bond Franchise (1962-∞)

#669 Post by Finch » Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:11 pm

swo17 wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:56 pm
Maybe this will leave him enough time to die now
Thanks for the laugh. I needed that so much.

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Re: James Bond Franchise (1962-∞)

#670 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:34 pm

therewillbeblus wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:06 pm
I hope they make it longer
Casino Royale and Skyfall were just about 20 minutes shorter than the projected runtime for this, those two working the best for me. Meanwhile Quantum of Solace, the worst of the bunch, was an anemic 106.

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tenia
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Re: James Bond Franchise (1962-∞)

#671 Post by tenia » Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:25 am

Shorter movies aren't necessarily better but omg there has been way too many 2hrs+ Hollywood movies this past decade whose quality felt inversely proportionate to their duration.
I remember watching The Bourne Legacy and thinking "actually, I can pretty much look at the duration and guess how bad it will be".

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therewillbeblus
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Re: James Bond Franchise (1962-∞)

#672 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:42 am

But what if the additional footage is all Ana de Armas holding guns looking awesome

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Finch
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Re: James Bond Franchise (1962-∞)

#673 Post by Finch » Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:01 pm

Better still if she fired the guns John Woo style.

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aox
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Re: James Bond Franchise (1962-∞)

#674 Post by aox » Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:02 pm

Sorry for this sort of "IMDB Message Board"- level of questioning/supposition (read: bored during quarantine):

For some of you on here who work in the industry or have a much more in depth knowledge of the movie industry, are you surprised or not surprised that No Time to Die hasn't leaked online? I know security around film productions especially with the $$$ of this intellectual property can be as strong as a military operation, but we're also talking about dozens or hundreds of individual agents. Any insight into the level of security protecting this? How many copies exist? Who would have access to it?

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Ribs
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Re: James Bond Franchise (1962-∞)

#675 Post by Ribs » Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:36 pm

Not entirely sure why the movie would have leaked any more than any other movie - the only examples I can think of it happening to a major Hollywood film (not counting movies coming out during screener season) are Expendables 3 and The Interview. Why do you think hundreds of people would have copies? Movies like this don’t pre-screen before they start doing junkets (which they hadn’t yet, and even still they don’t always pre-screen for those either). I expect the amount of people who’ve seen the final edit of the movie is less than 20 - the filmmaking team, some executives at UA and some at Universal. Senior level marketing and PR people were probably screened edits a bit ago but any of those DCPs were probably wiped as soon as they were done. I don’t expect they’ve begun manufacturing the DCPs (or film prints, that I believe they are doing dor this movie) for the real theatrical release either. I’m sure that Wonder Woman is also pretty much done - there’s similarly no reason to expect that to suddenly appear either.

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