Beanpole (Kantemir Balagov, 2019)

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mfunk9786
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Re: Festival Circuit 2019

#1 Post by mfunk9786 » Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:30 pm

Beanpole's poster is stunning

Image

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zedz
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Re: Festival Circuit 2019

#2 Post by zedz » Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:31 pm

That's the actual colour scheme of the film: golden light with powerful rich greens anchoring the compositions (and, to some extent, the narrative).

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Re: Festival Circuit 2019

#3 Post by mfunk9786 » Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:34 pm

If it comes to the Philadelphia Film Festival (lineup will be announced in a month or less, psyched), I'm sold.

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Beanpole (Kantemir Balagov, 2019)

#4 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:20 pm

DarkImbecile wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:10 pm

3.) Beanpole (Balagov) - I missed Balagov's debut feature Tesnota at Telluride a few years ago, and I'm regretting that quite a bit now. I can always look forward to at least one beautiful yet crushingly depressing Russian or Eastern European drama at this festival, and this examination of two women navigating the difficulties and traumas of postwar Leningrad fit the bill perfectly. With his 24-year old cinematographer Kseniya Sereda, Balagov — who himself looks like he's not old enough to legally drink in the US — incorporates striking color into what is often a bleak, drab subgenre, with rich greens, enveloping reds, and — in one great sequence — cool blues serving the film both visually and on a thematic/character level. Co-star Vasilisa Perelygina's delivery of one of the film's final lines —
SpoilerShow
"It will heal us."
— is absolutely devastating.
Beanpole

A visually and viscerally arresting portrait of life post-war, a milieu of people and systems still revving on fumes of pain and intense perseverance for survival. The film is in part the devastating portrayal of brokenness from trauma one would expect, but it channels a surprisingly high degree of hopefulness and gratitude, strengths engrained in its subjects who have learned to remain present in the sensory overload of constant fear that they’ve grown to know. Beautiful scenes, exceptionally lit and shot with golden colors, evoke such gratitude for small exchanges in life many would not think to meditate on given the circumstances of the content, but Balagov has the perspective and the ability to hold the contrasting moods of serenity and despair hand in hand and fuse seemingly trivial moments into his film that recognize truth in their significance, brushing aside grander plotting that a less gentle or empathetic director may revert to by habit. As the delicately alluring co-leads, Viktoria Miroshnichenko and Vasilisa Perelygina embody strikingly complex attitudes that consistently exude fleeting emotions across this broad emotional spectrum, aptly validating the human psychological experience with humility and genuine interest. I don’t remember the last time grief and joy fit so harmoniously together, neither persistently consuming but instead emitting a range between the extremes; alive with vivacious seizing of opportunities for pleasure and simultaneous acceptance of impermanence, as well as the anger, manipulation, and apathy that plague these women who cannot bear more sorrow, all brewed together in a soup of the unpredictable collage of trauma responses that, while certainly brutal and upsetting, is rooted not in horror but in grace. We simply rarely get to experience grace in a form this authentically intricate in cinema.
SpoilerShow
While I can understand an objective reading of the ending as depressing, it seemed more ambiguous to me and perhaps even optimistic. Masha's reaction at Iya's detached surrender to her trauma can be read as that of someone who may be triggered by the poison of hopelessness and offensively jumping to inner psychological mechanisms to create not only a positive perspective whilst suppressing the despairing one, but consciously constructing false truth. However, it's possible that her reaction is rooted in empathy, an external - rather than internal - prompt that initiates Masha to attempt to save her friend by professing hope. To fit with the grey, complicated lens of the film, both of these processes may be occurring at once. Objectively, Masha is lying to Iya, and perhaps even to herself, if one accepts the first interpretation of the scene; but regardless, there is hope here that both women will use this subjective vision of a dream to dig themselves out of their current emotional and psychological pits with the lie's constructed meaning. They've proven to be resilient not only throughout this film, but for years prior during the war, and I choose to believe that they will not stop now. This is not the end of their story, and the candle of hope has not gone out. If anything, Masha has finally discovered the truth Iya has known for some time: that their most reliable natural supports are one another and not only themselves. This collective strength will allow for each to complement the other in times of need uncomplicated by the variables of the past, a newfound humility that abandons the drive to survive alone and an acceptance in their bond as not only practical, but sacred.

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Re: The Films of 2019

#5 Post by nitin » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:50 pm

The most staggering thing for me is that Balagov is 27. Although this is adapted from the written work of someone else, it just feels like the work of someone more mature.

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Re: The Films of 2019

#6 Post by DarkImbecile » Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:12 pm

nitin wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:50 pm
The most staggering thing for me is that Balagov is 27. Although this is adapted from the written work of someone else, it just feels like the work of someone more mature.
As I noted in my writeup in the Festival Circuit thread, the fact that his cinematographer on this was only 24 is equally mind-blowing.

Has anyone seen Balagov’s previous film, Tesnota? Curious to see whether/how much of a departure Beanpole is from that film in terms of its tone and maturity.

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Re: The Films of 2019

#7 Post by Black Hat » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:17 am

In a year that's shaping up to be a big one for movies Beanpole was an astonishing work. To say it's a lot to take in is an understatement, for many it's too much to wrestle with. Hell, it's not something I'd even recommend seeing, but Kantemir Balagov is a visionary genius of film. The detail of his set/production design, costumes, use of color, female friendship, ptsd, willingness to take risks to go places most people wouldn't dream of to pulling his two leads out of acting school and on and on and on, the list is long. From what I was told his first film is even better than this one.
nitin wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:50 pm
The most staggering thing for me is that Balagov is 27. Although this is adapted from the written work of someone else, it just feels like the work of someone more mature.
Indeed.

Has anybody read the book Beanpole is based on?

Mods toss in DI's post and lets spin this thread off please, Beanpole deserve its own borders.

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Re: The Films of 2019

#8 Post by alacal2 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:17 am

I'll add my voice to the praise that Beanpole is getting here. I deliberately timed my visit to the UK to catch this at the London Film Festival directly as a result of comments on this board (sadly the only film I got to see there). Impressively disciplined focus on the consequences as opposed to the causes of war. Not a flashback in sight but everywhere in the performances and on the faces of a brilliant cast. Whilst the female leads have rightly been admired the actor who plays the head of the hospital is astonishing whose whole being appears to have completely inhaled the horrors around him. A film I need and want to see again.
I understand the film is to be Russia's nomination for next year's Academy Awards.
By the way, in the Q&A that followed, one very earnest member of the audience detailed his theory about vegetable growing and the symbolism of the film's title (to much groaning from the audience!) only to be gently put down by the director who explained it mean't "clumsy".

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Re: Beanpole (Kantemir Balagov, 2019)

#9 Post by Nasir007 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:36 am

I admired the film, it is incredibly well made. Can't say I liked the film.

It's maybe a limitation in myself. I have a rigidly rational worldview. Things have to make sense, at the very least people have to make sense. People have brains. Their conduct isn't governed by picking chits out of a hat. There is some semblance of logic, however obscure or fuzzy, to how most human beings behave.

Not in this film. And that frustrated me. The film is a series of dumb and outright bad decesions being made by characters and I found that incredibly frustrating. Sure there is drama but I found it extremely unnatural. Sure there is emotional cruelty but I found it unpredicated.

A film like this (and even Roma for that matter) shows how irresistibly seductive a "well made film is". The blocking and mis en scene are unerringly good. The lighting is indeed beautiful. The production design is rich and evocative. But these things cannot be and should not be a proxy for a well thought out drama, for a compassionate and penetrating look at humanity, for the study of how the human mind works.

I found maturity in this film but only in the technique, otherwise all I found in this film is naivete and preciousness and a very green understanding of how human beings and human relationships work.

Not all is lost though. I of course am also seduced by a well made film. It took me a while to see through Roma. But not here. But I will again reiterate, it is indeed very beautifully made.
Last edited by Nasir007 on Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Beanpole (Kantemir Balagov, 2019)

#10 Post by nitin » Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:44 am

Why would you expect things to ‘make sense’ in the environment/time period this movie is set in? Do you expect the same for example in other movies more overtly depicting PTSD?

And always people making sense and making logic based decisions...am I reading this correctly in the world as we know it in 2019?

Also, it is based on writing that itself is meant to reflect actual post war experiences of women in Soviet Union. How can that therefore not be reflective of how human beings actually did behave during this time?

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Re: The Films of 2019

#11 Post by Mothravka » Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:09 am

I thought it was okay at its height, but nothing really elevates it from being anything else than quite ordinary and miserable social realism, at least for me. Maybe I've grown a bit tired of it. But I can agree that it's well made in some technical regards. The same goes for Closeness (2017). Too bad, because I wanted to like both of them more, seeing as they have very interesting topics.
DarkImbecile wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:12 pm
Has anyone seen Balagov’s previous film, Tesnota? Curious to see whether/how much of a departure Beanpole is from that film in terms of its tone and maturity.
Yes. It's quite similar in its tone, atmosphere and characterization.

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Re: Beanpole (Kantemir Balagov, 2019)

#12 Post by mfunk9786 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:30 am

I was unable to see this one at the Philadelphia Film Festival, does anyone have details on the U.S. release, if there will be any?

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Re: Beanpole (Kantemir Balagov, 2019)

#13 Post by Mothravka » Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:39 am

mfunk9786 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:30 am
I was unable to see this one at the Philadelphia Film Festival, does anyone have details on the U.S. release, if there will be any?
In theaters January 29, 2020 according to Kino Lorber. If that's what you mean?

https://www.kinolorber.com/film/view/id/3731

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Re: Beanpole (Kantemir Balagov, 2019)

#14 Post by mfunk9786 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:18 pm

Yes, it is, thank you - hopefully it makes it out of just NY & LA!

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Re: Beanpole (Kantemir Balagov, 2019)

#15 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:53 pm

nitin wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:44 am
Nasir007 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:36 am
I admired the film, it is incredibly well made. Can't say I liked the film.

It's maybe a limitation in myself. I have a rigidly rational worldview. Things have to make sense, at the very least people have to make sense. People have brains. Their conduct isn't governed by picking chits out of a hat. There is some semblance of logic, however obscure or fuzzy, to how most human beings behave.

Not in this film. And that frustrated me. The film is a series of dumb and outright bad decesions being made by characters and I found that incredibly frustrating. Sure there is drama but I found it extremely unnatural. Sure there is emotional cruelty but I found it unpredicated.

A film like this (and even Roma for that matter) shows how irresistibly seductive a "well made film is". The blocking and mis en scene are unerringly good. The lighting is indeed beautiful. The production design is rich and evocative. But these things cannot be and should not be a proxy for a well thought out drama, for a compassionate and penetrating look at humanity, for the study of how the human mind works.

I found maturity in this film but only in the technique, otherwise all I found in this film is naivete and preciousness and a very green understanding of how human beings and human relationships work.
Why would you expect things to ‘make sense’ in the environment/time period this movie is set in? Do you expect the same for example in other movies more overtly depicting PTSD?

And always people making sense and making logic based decisions...am I reading this correctly in the world as we know it in 2019?

Also, it is based on writing that itself is meant to reflect actual post war experiences of women in Soviet Union. How can that therefore not be reflective of how human beings actually did behave during this time?
Going off of nitin's response, what leads you to believe that this is not "how human beings and human relationships work"? You open your post by saying that your limitation is your "rational world view" and I think you hit the nail on the head but harder than you think. This film, like many films ("empathy-machines" to quote Ebert), demand that the viewer takes perspective and gets outside of themselves. This film demands that those of us who are not Russian women experiencing PTSD in the wake of post-war Soviet Union (most if not all of us, I believe) try to empathize with them on an emotional level.

But beyond that, this is a film about what it's like to live with trauma in general, and cope to the best of one's abilities with their risk and protective factors. It's incredibly offensive to take an antisocial outlook on these behaviors as "dumb." Trauma survivors, and human being in general, are emotional beings. Some people tend to sway towards the "logical" end of the spectrum, but in nature we are governed primarily by older conditioned responses in our emotions, with cognitive abilities developing later in life. Trauma affects the brain, and before you judge these characters and their behaviors as realistic, please read up on it. I'm not going to speak for everyone who has experienced trauma, or pretend to be the resident expert on the condition, but as someone who literally works with people of all ages with various traumatic histories and experiences every day, I reject and am personally offended by your judgments. If you aren't willing to engage with this film beyond your solipsistic tunnel vision of personal logic, that's fine, but please don't make statements like "people have brains" regarding a movie about trauma, when trauma affects the brain. I realize that it's likely unintentional, but your thoughtless comments can be read as derogatory microaggressions against people living with a common form of mental illness.

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Re: Beanpole (Kantemir Balagov, 2019)

#16 Post by Black Hat » Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:57 pm

I'll third nit & twbs posts. Not sure what about the film doesn't make sense to begin with, nor do I buy the 'rational rigid' spittle dribble.
SpoilerShow
that sound... what a harrowing, haunting sound

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Re: Beanpole (Kantemir Balagov, 2019)

#17 Post by Nasir007 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:03 pm

I was planning to respond to nitin but it seems my post was harrowing and offensive for many users here. Thus I will refrain from further commenting on my thoughts and expanding upon what I said above to not hurt other users.

If nitin or anyone else wishes to have a private correspondence, please send me a private message and I will be most happy to engage in a conversation.

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Re: Beanpole (Kantemir Balagov, 2019)

#18 Post by mfunk9786 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:08 pm

I'm lost - what happened?

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Re: Beanpole (Kantemir Balagov, 2019)

#19 Post by DarkImbecile » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:12 pm

Nasir007 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:03 pm
I was planning to respond to nitin but it seems my post was harrowing and offensive for many users here. Thus I will refrain from further commenting on my thoughts and expanding upon what I said above to not hurt other users.

If nitin or anyone else wishes to have a private correspondence, please send me a private message and I will be most happy to engage in a conversation.
Probably better to clarify or explain further here than just let the original post hang out there, if you feel comfortable doing so. More conversation is usually better than less, even if you’re sticking to your original assertions.

mfunk, therewillbeblus expressed disappointment and some offense at Nasir007’s calling the behavior of PTSD sufferers “dumb”.

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Re: Beanpole (Kantemir Balagov, 2019)

#20 Post by zedz » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:21 pm

Speaking of trauma, this features one of the most heartbreaking scenes I've seen in a long time:
SpoilerShow
when Iya has a seizure and inadvertently kills the child
Masha's 'interview' towards the end is also a really remarkable scene, and something I didn't expect to see in the film.

Further to therewillbeblus' post: the opening shot of the film signals with absolute clarity that this film is doing exactly what he claims it is.

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Re: Beanpole (Kantemir Balagov, 2019)

#21 Post by Nasir007 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:24 pm

DarkImbecile wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:12 pm
Nasir007 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:03 pm
I was planning to respond to nitin but it seems my post was harrowing and offensive for many users here. Thus I will refrain from further commenting on my thoughts and expanding upon what I said above to not hurt other users.

If nitin or anyone else wishes to have a private correspondence, please send me a private message and I will be most happy to engage in a conversation.
Probably better to clarify or explain further here than just let the original post hang out there, if you feel comfortable doing so. More conversation is usually better than less, even if you’re sticking to your original assertions.

mfunk, therewillbeblus expressed disappointment and some offense at Nasir007’s calling the behavior of PTSD sufferers “dumb”.
I do not feel comfortable. Anything I say will not be not offensive. I think that ship has sailed already.

As for your second comment, I honestly did not conceive of the characters as PTSD sufferers. I only thought of them as human beings. Thus I was not singling out a segment of human beings, just stating that according to me the characters made dumb decisions, as all human beings do, not just those suffering from PTSD.

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Re: Beanpole (Kantemir Balagov, 2019)

#22 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:16 pm

Nasir, I appreciate your response and as I said I do not believe you intended to be offensive, nor do I have a problem with the way you viewed the film. My problem entirely rests on declarative statements you made on human behavior using objective, diagnostic language. Your post repeatedly noted that this is not how humans behave or think, and that there is no logic to their behaviors, emotions, and cognitions. I don't see how someone could miss this as a movie about trauma, but even if so, there is an irony present in someone declaring that the film doesn't know how human behavior works after stating that your deficit is your own naivete in not being able to see beyond a restrictively logical vs. emotional perspective. Language matters, and when you acknowledge that your vantage point is skewed but then make attacks (whether intended as such or not) judging the characters and their problems as universal truths to human behavior, then language becomes unfairly weaponized against those who may relate to those behaviors, associated thoughts, emotions, and experiences. Just because the logic of people living with and experiencing trauma, or those with different life experiences, don't subscribe to your own, doesn't mean they don't have their own internal logic servicing emotional needs. You don't have the like the characters, or even respect them, but there is a danger in expressing your opinions in a manner that pejoratively pathologizes struggling individuals or populations while also linguistically constructing such opinions as facts.

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Re: Beanpole (Kantemir Balagov, 2019)

#23 Post by Nasir007 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:08 pm

I will refrain from commenting upon the substance of your post or anything that you are attributing to me as that goes into territory that I am relegating to private conversation only.

I will, however, agree with you that language is indeed perilous at the best of times. One could never be sure (as with most things in life) as to what could be perceived as offensive. Basically anything and everything can be offensive so I want to tread respectfully and carefully. The offended decide what offends them. I think the recourse for those who are perceived as having given offense is to withdraw with grace because what else is there to do. Such is my hope and attempt, however clumsy.

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Re: Beanpole (Kantemir Balagov, 2019)

#24 Post by Black Hat » Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:42 pm

zedz wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:21 pm
Speaking of trauma, this features one of the most heartbreaking scenes I've seen in a long time:
SpoilerShow
when Iya has a seizure and inadvertently kills the child
Masha's 'interview' towards the end is also a really remarkable scene, and something I didn't expect to see in the film.

Further to therewillbeblus' post: the opening shot of the film signals with absolute clarity that this film is doing exactly what he claims it is.
SpoilerShow
are we sure that was a seizure? or that it was inadvertent? I feel like Balagov said something different on the former, but could be misremembering.
Could you refresh my memory on Masha's 'interview' please?


Nasir: Maybe english is your second language, but if it isn't you've lost the plot my man. Please have the spaceship drop you off on earth with its next lap round the universe.

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Re: Beanpole (Kantemir Balagov, 2019)

#25 Post by zedz » Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:54 pm

Black Hat wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:42 pm
zedz wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:21 pm
Speaking of trauma, this features one of the most heartbreaking scenes I've seen in a long time:
SpoilerShow
when Iya has a seizure and inadvertently kills the child
SpoilerShow
are we sure that was a seizure? or that it was inadvertent? I feel like Balagov said something different on the former, but could be misremembering.
The sound design. And I think there was a black out. I don't believe there's any narrative support for it being deliberate.
Could you refresh my memory on Masha's 'interview' please?
I mean the scene towards the end where she
SpoilerShow
meets her boyfriend's parents and counters their condescension with her very own scorched earth policy, rubbing their noses in their prejudices.
It's a weird mix of catharsis, despair and pitch-black comedy.

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