The Departed (Martin Scorsese, 2006)

[Antoine Doinel]

Some interesting initial news and Christopher Doyle taking a piece out of Marty, courtesy of Variety's Asian film blog, Kaiju Shakedown.

[Don Lope de Aguirre]

Some facts about the film

I don't know what to say...

Kudos! I'm glad someone's not afraid to speak the truth but I wasn't expecting comments as incisive and bullshit free as this! What makes it even sweeter is that he worked on the project! Take the money with one hand and slap them in the face with the other! How the world needs more people like Mr Doyle! Kudos!

[Antoine Doinel]

I like Christopher Doyle, but I don't think Infernal Affairs was anything particularly special outside of it's interesting premise. Certainly nothing so precious that to revisit it is a crime. It's one slick blockbuster being remade into another slick blockbuster. I think the concept is open enough that a remake could explore different areas and take a different path that the original didn't venture into. Particularly when it comes to character development and morality ambiguity, I think it's entirely possible Scorsese will do a much better job and than the original.

[Alonzo the Armless]

I never got the impression Scorsese didn't know or care where the original film came from. He has mentioned he didn't see the original and doesn't want to, I'm assuming because he doesn't want to be influenced by it. He's not keen on making remakes and definitely wants to make sure the film is completely from his point of view.

[Derek Estes]

I guess by that standard Kurosawa was a hack for not watching Welles' Macbeth, before making Throne of Blood. It was an obvious insult to Welles' and Shakespear's integrity. Doyle can fuck off.

[Barmy]

I also guess by that standard Wong Kar Wai is a hack by remaking his own films ad nauseum.

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

I guess by that standard Kurosawa was a hack for not watching Welles' Macbeth, before making Throne of Blood. It was an obvious insult to Welles' and Shakespear's integrity. Doyle can fuck off.

Wait, so Welles' Macbeth was the inspiration for Throne of Blood? I don't know much (read: anything) about the background of Throne of Blood, but I always figured it was based on the play and not any particular adaptation.

[GringoTex]

I'm glad someone's not afraid to speak the truth but I wasn't expecting comments as incisive and bullshit free as this! What makes it even sweeter is that he worked on the project! Take the money with one hand and slap them in the face with the other! How the world needs more people like Mr Doyle!

The world needs more raging alcoholics who lash out at everything and anything when drunk?

[Noir of the Night]

I find it amusing that Doyle lashes out at Marty's lack of integrity after having lensed the new M. Night Shyamalan film.

[Grimfarrow]

The world needs more raging alcoholics who lash out at everything and anything when drunk?

Wrong. He stopped drinking two months ago. Cold turkey.

[marty]

Wrong. He stopped drinking two months ago. Cold turkey.

He was clearly inebriated at the Berlin Film Festival form what I saw but then again that was three months ago. Doyle will never stop drinking altogether and I sadly await his premature death as a result.

[Derek Estes]

Wait, so Welles' Macbeth was the inspiration for Throne of Blood? I don't know much (read: anything) about the background of Throne of Blood, but I always figured it was based on the play and not any particular adaptation.

No Shit, Macbeth was a play? Kurosawa decided not to see Welles' film so as not to be influenced, when he filmed his adaptation of Dario Argento's film Opera.

[Grimfarrow]

He was clearly inebriated at the Berlin Film Festival form what I saw but then again that was three months ago. Doyle will never stop drinking altogether and I sadly await his premature death as a result.

Don't be so sure about your "never". This was after Berlin. I saw him last month. He told me he quit. And according to Ken he's still off it.

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

No Shit, Macbeth was a play? Kurosawa decided not to see Welles' film so as not to be influenced, when he filmed his adaptation of Dario Argento's film Opera.

You missed the point. Welles' Macbeth is hardly "the original" in the case of Throne of Blood and the analogy with Infernal Affairs/The Departed doesn't hold. The Throne of Blood comparison is apt only if the film was actually based on Welles' Macbeth and not Shakespeare's, or if Kurosawa hadn't read the play before doing his film (which for all I know may have been the case).

On a more general note, Doyle's comments here actually date back to December, just in case anyone wants to further pursue the "Doyle is a cranky drunk" angle.

[Derek Estes]

Actually, since it was my comment that you responded to, it was my point that you seemed to miss. My point was that is doesn't matter if Scorsese has seen the original film, because the material will have a chance to be adapted differently in his hands, without the influence of the actual film it is based on.

Had Kurosawa seen Welles' adaptation, it would have been considerably harder not to be influenced by it, this would allow him to approach the material in a way that would be considerably more original, than if he had.

This would make The Departed more of adaptation of the story-form of Internal Affairs, but with Scorsese's point of view.

This reminds me of what Jean Renoir said about giving several directors the same script for a Western, and seeing how different each film turned out,depending on each directors sensibilitys. I imagine this to be an example of this theory.
I can't say if the Departed will be better of worse than Internal Affairs, but I hardly find his choice to direct this film blasphemous.

B.T.W. David Lean never read Dicken's Great Expectations before making the film.

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

But that's not the standard Doyle is using. Doyle's standard seems to be that remaking or adapting something without acquainting yourself with the original is inherently disrespectful. AFAIK Welles' Macbeth wasn't the source for Throne of Blood, so to suggest that Doyle's logic means Kurosawa was disrespectful to the source material is an inaccurate application of his argument -- you're changing it from "ignorance of the original is disrespectful" to "ignorance of the original and everything else drawn from it is disrespectful," which is a big leap. If you want to directly challenge the correctness of his standard (as you did in your last post), fine -- in fact, I agree there are circumstances where ignorance of the source material would be justifiable and even beneficial, and The Departed may well prove to be one of them. But by misapplying his standard you're just putting words in his mouth.

[che-etienne]

Well, I'll take with a grain of salt what Doyle says. I respect him and his words, but not necessarily their wisdom. Doyle also said:

"I think what we're doing here [Asia] is much more valid. We've got half the world's population here. The implications are as evident as they would be for the French New Wave."

"The idea is becoming a blueprint. The visual aspect of film is expanding, we're evolving a new relationship with film-making over here [Asia]. I really think we've moved beyond all that auteur theory. People will have to come up with a different theory for what we're doing here."

"The East is rising and the energy of the region is reflected in everything we do here, whether commercial, military or cinematic. I just happen to be part of that. We're in a golden age of cinematography. Most people are on-line at least four hours a day. They're seeing images all the time and their visual sophistication is jumping far beyond all the old farts in the Academy."

Interesting opinions for sure, but ones I can't agree with... just like his say about "the Departed". So I'm not really sure the world needs more Christopher Doyles, because frankly he's motor mouth enough for a few copies of himself.

[pzman84]

I think what Doyle doesn't understand is Scorsese needs to eat and pay the bills. I will be the first to admit there are better things Scorsese could be spending his time on. However, I think the man who brought us Taxi Driver and Raging Bull could direct tampon commericals from now on and still go down as a great (if not one of the greatest) filmmaker.

[Don Lope de Aguirre]

How the world needs more people like Mr Doyle!

Judging by the mixed and passionate reactions to his comments I would say that, yes, the world does need more people like him!

We hear so many banal, trite and platitudinous interviews/comments from people in the industry it's fantastic to hear someone with an interesting opinion, whether you agree with him or not or even if you see him merely as a provocateur. God forbid he's willing to express what others daren't...

[pemmican]

Has anyone else here completely lost interest in Scorsese? The token black characters in GANGS OF NEW YORK just seemed ridiculous to me, and compromised the film. I didn't bother with THE AVIATOR... I think I'll just re-watch WHO'S THAT KNOCKING ON MY DOOR again and again when I need to see a Scorsese film... it's really the only one I love...
A.

[devlinnn]

Rock n' Roll!!! Bring on all the motor-mouthed Chris Doyles of the world, bottle in one hand, fags in the other, to work at the top of their game to bring us images and sounds to feed our starving little souls. (If only one of them would return and become PM.)

[Andre Jurieu]

On a more general note, Doyle's comments here actually date back to December...

Thank god someone still pays attention around here. Doyle's rant is old news. It also seems to yet another instance of lazy knee-jerk criticism, where "any remake = bad", "foreign original = masterpiece, western remake = crime against humanity", "Hollywood = evil". I guess this implies that Doyle now believe's Wong Kar-Wai is now sucking box-office/studio dick for money? Maybe he judges directors on a case-by-case basis.

What makes it even sweeter is that he worked on the project! Take the money with one hand and slap them in the face with the other!

I'm assuming by the whole "Doyle is so courageous to bite the hand that feeds"-vibe of your post, that by "project" you mean The Departed. If that's the case, I don't see any evidence that Doyle worked on The Departed. As the Variety article states, Doyle was the "visual consultant on Infernal Affairs", not The Departed. Michael Ballhaus is Scorsese's cinematographer on The Departed. Doyle seems perfectly content about collecting his paycheque from Infernal Affairs, which seemed like a fairly "mediocre" film to me.

[David Ehrenstein]

Doyle is a brilliant DP, but I'm beginning to understand why Wong isn't planning to work with him anymore.

As for going "cold turkey," that's what Dubbya claims too -- and it's screamingly obvious he's still on the sauce.

[Grimfarrow]

As for going "cold turkey," that's what Dubbya claims too -- and it's screamingly obvious he's still on the sauce.

With this kind of journalistic criticism, no wonder no one treats critics seriously anymore.

[HerrSchreck]

I find it amusing that Doyle lashes out at Marty's lack of integrity after having lensed the new M. Night Shyamalan film.

=D>