Awards Season 2020

[Nasir007]

Not sure how I feel about these changes. I guess I would have to see the nominations in 2022 to see its actual effect.

I wasn't really a fan of 10 nominees because it favored consensus over passion - though it did lead to some happy outcomes - most importantly nomination of Toy Story 3 for Best Picture which would not happen under any other system.

But the difference in outcome between the two systems is so small that this is just a symbolic gesture. In the current system the academy averaged 8.67 nominees per year. On average, they will add 1 other movie to the slate.

I can't remember any egregious snubs in the best picture category of late that happened on what might be presumed to be racist or discriminatory grounds. 8-9 is not a small number. Most movies in genuine contention do make it in.

What problem does the academy think this will fix? Okay, they will add 1 more movie. What will that 1 more movie represent?

Pardon my cynicism but I am always extremely skeptical of merely symbolic change, in art as well as politics, because it can give the people in power a symbol they can point to and say - look we did this. That is not enough. Symbolic changes are fine but they are absolutely meaningless in the larger scheme of things. I would much rather prefer consequential deep systematic change. Symbolism is fine. We see enough of it in the news.

So again, maybe the task force will have some good recommendations by July 31st. But this initial change is pointless and will do little to encourage diversity.

[movielocke]

I wouldn’t expect district 9 to get a nomination in the new system, the rules changes about requiring 5% of first place votes to qualify for a best picture nomination prevents oddities and animated films from squeaking through in the 5-10 era. If that 5% changes as well (to allow for more nominees) then all bets are off.

[Nasir007]

I think it depends. But I agree. I think things like Blind Side or District 9 wouldn't get in.

Basically with the current system, there is essentially only 1 round. So a film needs to get about 250 first place votes - 250 members saying this is the single best film of the year - to the exclusion of all other films. Say something like The Farewell - will get it get 250 first place votes? I think not. Not even A Serious Man.

The system of 10 - used in 2009 and 2010, basically had the transferrable vote system which could stretch to dozens of round and films could gradually acquire votes through 2nd place placement, or 3rd place, or 4th place and so on.

Basically - current system (2011-2019) rewards passionately liked films. 2009-2010 system rewards broad consensus film.

But if I were to truly compare outcomes - say if you implemented the 2009-2010 system from the years 2011-2019 - I think most of the 8 or 9 that made it in would be included in the 10 with maybe a couple of swapouts.

This much I can state with some confidence - the actual best picture winner would not change whatever nomination procedure you used. So the truly final final final outcome would be unchanged.

[therewillbeblus]

I wonder if the increased number as a rule will result in more international films filling in the spots, especially those that make an impact in an Oscar season post-Parasite. I agree that something like Knives Out likely would have made it last year, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Pain and Glory did either, and depending on how non-English cinema trends in the states in the next couple years the movement could sway into a pattern. Pure speculation but cool to think about, and interesting timing following a year with an unexpected and historical win showing audiences as open-minded including to themselves, which I suspect will only be reinforced now.

[movielocke]

I doubt more foreign films would qualify from rules changes rather that they qualify because the academy has become much more international because of “Oscars so white” diversity membership drives. But it is the. Oscar season _narratives_ about films’ awards prospects that drive industry viewership which drives the nominations in the guilds and major categories (city of god being the only notable exception of the last twenty years in that it got many big nominations without a concurrent Oscar season narrative). The expansion of the academy screening room streaming service is the FIRST reform that addresses this root symptom of campaigns and narratives (it just means a year round campaign but it should vastly improve participation in and viewership of international film, documentaries and shorts. And possibly raise the awards profile of films that make money and are seen by audiences, because the academy desperately needs more Fury Road and Black Panther type of best picture nominations and in a traditional awards season there’s a limited amount of bandwidth / time most of which is related to performers and as a result the technical/craft categories wind up being packed with the same films when by rights the down ballot categories should be the showcases for tech/craft categories where box office films can break through.

And iirc the academy has about 9000 members now so it’s about 450 first place votes to qualify for best picture

[Nasir007]

It's 5% of the total number of ballots received. But that's in the current system, I think they will have to revert to the 2009-2010 voting system. You can see an explanation here.

Unless someone has any other information, I would presume they would have to use this system to get exactly 10 nominees each time.

With regards to more foreign films making it in, in the 2011-2019 years, the only ones I would bet money are on are - Cold War in 2018. I believe that would have been nominated under the 2009-2010 system. And even under the current system, I would think it perhaps was 10th or 11th.

The only others that might have been in play - A Separation in 2011, Son of Saul in 2015, and Ida n 2014.

I don't think besides Amour, Roma and Parasite, any other foreign language films were ever in play for BP apart from the ones I mentioned above.

[Nasir007]

Rather surprising announcement by the Academy.

I don't see how every single award out there also does not change the eligibility window.

The structuralist in me hates this irregular period. Breaks symmetry and neat patterns. It ain't the best picture of the year if the award ain't for a period covering a year.

[Never Cursed]

The eligibility period is still in practical terms less than a year; either nothing or almost nothing from February to May of 2020 will be nominated. I feel worse for the Tonys, which straight up just didn't happen this year (and won't happen for some time) given that lockdown started at the beginning of their award season.

[swo17]

Nice to see the Academy is sticking to its ethos of lavishly celebrating just whatever filmmakers happen to put together during a year

[felipe]

With rule changes and the pandemic, what is the Academy's current position towards streaming? Does a film still need a theatrical release for eligibility. What determines if a streaming release will be up for Emmys or Oscars?

Is Hamilton eligible for the next Oscars, even though it's debuting at a streaming platform?

[swo17]

I should think the bigger issue is that it's merely a filmed performance of a Broadway production from 4 years ago

[dws1982]

With rule changes and the pandemic, what is the Academy's current position towards streaming? Does a film still need a theatrical release for eligibility. What determines if a streaming release will be up for Emmys or Oscars?

Is Hamilton eligible for the next Oscars, even though it's debuting at a streaming platform?

The Academy temporarily modified some of their eligibility criteria, and for at least this year, movies that debut on streaming platforms will be eligible.

[Calvin]

Unsurprisingly, Oscars prognosticators have already mulled over Hamilton's chances.

[Nasir007]

To my knowledge there’s nothing in the academy’s rules that would prevent Hamilton from being nominated in several categories including best picture etc. except for the score and song categories where it will be ineligible.

[domino harvey]

The only precedent would be Give ‘Em Hell, Harry, which like Hamilton is not a movie but a filmed theatrical performance, and was nominated for Best Actor

[swo17]

Well it will be really stupid if this musical production is technically eligible for every category except best song and score

[domino harvey]

I mean, that's why modern film musicals always add at least one new song so that it can get Oscar nommed

[felipe]

The only precedent would be Give ‘Em Hell, Harry, which like Hamilton is not a movie but a filmed theatrical performance, and was nominated for Best Actor

I guess it's kind of uncommon to consider Oscar chances for a filmed performance, but Hamilton is in the unusual position of being backed by a company who will be ready to pour money in a campain in order to promote its streaming service. I see Hamilton ads on every website I enter, and I think this never happened to any filmed theatrical performance before.

And maybe more importantly, I can already see the mentions of "the story America needs right now" in a year when the Academy will be doing whatever it can to promote diversity.

[felipe]

With rule changes and the pandemic, what is the Academy's current position towards streaming? Does a film still need a theatrical release for eligibility. What determines if a streaming release will be up for Emmys or Oscars?

Is Hamilton eligible for the next Oscars, even though it's debuting at a streaming platform?

The Academy temporarily modified some of their eligibility criteria, and for at least this year, movies that debut on streaming platforms will be eligible.

Does that mean movies released to streaming platforms this year can be nominated for both Oscars and Emmys? Or does being nominated for one make it ineligible on the other?

[Ribs]

To qualify for an Oscar you will need to have demonstrable evidence of a planned theatrical release. IMO, this *shouldn’t* qualify because that planned theatrical release was October 2021 and by moving it up from then (when it certainly would be able to open in some capacity) it doesn’t magically make it a theatrical release when you’re depriving it of the plan you had already. But it will qualify. I think for... artistic reasons involving the idea of rewarding a staged play made to be B-roll for a PBS documentary, the Academy won’t really be there for it.

[Nasir007]

I guess it's kind of uncommon to consider Oscar chances for a filmed performance, but Hamilton is in the unusual position of being backed by a company who will be ready to pour money in a campain in order to promote its streaming service. I see Hamilton ads on every website I enter, and I think this never happened to any filmed theatrical performance before.

And maybe more importantly, I can already see the mentions of "the story America needs right now" in a year when the Academy will be doing whatever it can to promote diversity.

I absolutely think Hamilton could have a very good shot. It is not an understatement to say that Hamilton is WORSHIPED as a great work of art by Hollywood, WORSHIPED (also by many/most other people).

Anne Thompson previously said this about Da 5 Bloods - "the largely liberal Academy voters ... are going to lean into movies about the Black experience this year."

With the current climate of activism, of toppling the symbolic foundations of the country and reclaiming the past and uplifting people of color - literally nothing personifies that more than Hamilton. And LMM is again a WORSHIPED figure for his art and activism.

I think Hamilton could even WIN Best Picture in the climate like today. Things will be different by April 2021. But say if the Oscars were in the next few months, I would even put money on Hamilton winning the award.

With rule changes and the pandemic, what is the Academy's current position towards streaming? Does a film still need a theatrical release for eligibility. What determines if a streaming release will be up for Emmys or Oscars?

Is Hamilton eligible for the next Oscars, even though it's debuting at a streaming platform?

The Academy temporarily modified some of their eligibility criteria, and for at least this year, movies that debut on streaming platforms will be eligible.

Does that mean movies released to streaming platforms this year can be nominated for both Oscars and Emmys? Or does being nominated for one make it ineligible on the other?

So this is going to be confusing until somebody puts sharper rules around this. But here's how it will be for the Emmy 2020 - Oscar 2021 - Emmy 2021 season.

Controlling for some nuances, most streaming content will be eligible for both Emmys and Oscars.

Now you can't compete for the same award in 2 years so things eligible for Emmy 2020 will not be eligible for Emmy 2021.

Oscars have released no rule barring Emmy nominated stuff from Oscars. So films nominated for Emmy 2020 will be eligible for Oscar 2021, controlling for nuances.

Emmys, have introduced a rule barring Oscar nominated stuff from being Emmys. So films nominated for Oscar 2021 will not be eligible for Emmy 2021.

So in theory, if I am a studio or film-maker, your best would be - for 2021 - Run a big campaign for all streaming content targeting both Oscar voters and Emmy voters.
a. If you film gets Oscar nommed - a great result for you, be happy and enjoy the accolade.
b. If your film does not get Oscar nommed - you get another bite at the apple with Emmy chances.

Someone feel free to correct me if this is not the case.

To qualify for an Oscar you will need to have demonstrable evidence of a planned theatrical release.

I feel this criteria is unenforceable and will cause arbitration fights though the academy reserves the right to reject whatever films it wants.

The only language in their rule says - " films that had a previously planned theatrical release but are initially made available through commercial streaming, VOD service or other broadcast may qualify for awards consideration"

Say for streaming content between July 2020 and Feb 2021 (the new Oscar deadline for 2021) - even for films that were always meant to be TV or streaming films, I could still say they were planned theatrical and gin up some fake plans and submit them to make them eligible.

[therewillbeblus]

Something tells me that people who vote for the Oscars will want to celebrate all the teamwork that goes into the process of creating a film together, more than a filmed performance of a Broadway musical. If it was a public vote, maybe, but you could also make the case that right now- along with BLM and all the movements gaining attention- the most universal experience is that people are just plain lonely and longing for times when they could socialize and collaborate. Seeing movies that celebrate that nostalgic magical essence to the spirit of the industry may win out in most people's hearts.

[felipe]

To my knowledge there’s nothing in the academy’s rules that would prevent Hamilton from being nominated in several categories including best picture etc. except for the score and song categories where it will be ineligible.

Which is kind of a weird loophole. Its score would be ineligible because it was originally created for the show itself and not just for the filmed performance, but so was the costume design or the script...

[Nasir007]

To my knowledge there’s nothing in the academy’s rules that would prevent Hamilton from being nominated in several categories including best picture etc. except for the score and song categories where it will be ineligible.

Which is kind of a weird loophole. Its score would be ineligible because it was originally created for the show itself and not just for the filmed performance, but so was the costume design or the script...

This is the language around score and song -

Score - An original score is a substantial body of music that serves as original dramatic underscoring and is written specifically for the motion picture.

Song - An original song consists of words and music, both of which are original and written specifically for the motion picture.

Hamilton very clearly and with little ambiguity fails both these tests.

[soundchaser]

I, for one, am excited to see Richard Wagner win Best Original Screenplay for those Fandango Live Event performances of the Ring Cycle.