According to director Ryan Coogler, Coppola asked to rewatch a scene of the movie after Coogler held an early screening for him.flyonthewall2983 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:23 pmI saw something on Twitter about Coppola liking Black Panther
Marvel Comics on Film
- Murdoch
- Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:59 pm
- Location: Upstate NY
Re: Marvel Comics on Film
- Brian C
- I hate to be That Pedantic Guy but...
- Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:58 am
- Location: Chicago, IL
Re: Marvel Comics on Film
Kind of an arbitrary distinction though, isn't it? Are we going to pretend now that all movies with CGI aren't cinema now?
- Big Ben
- Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:54 pm
- Location: Great Falls, Montana
Re: Marvel Comics on Film
-
- Joined: Fri May 11, 2018 12:55 pm
Re: Marvel Comics on Film
You’d have to ask Scorsese and Coppola. I was just pointing out we’re talking about the perspective of two directors who grew up fully analog, so it’s not surprising.
But yes, surprised no one has tried to charge Scorsese with hypocrisy given he’s used CGI often in the last decade.
- aox
- Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:02 pm
- Location: nYc
Re: Marvel Comics on Film
Yes, but I personally consider Hugo to be "cinema". It's how you use it. Ready Player One might be a better example of a middle ground in this argument between Hugo and MCU.quim_font wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:37 pmYou’d have to ask Scorsese and Coppola. I was just pointing out we’re talking about the perspective of two directors who grew up fully analog, so it’s not surprising.
But yes, surprised no one has tried to charge Scorsese with hypocrisy given he’s used CGI often in the last decade.
- Brian C
- I hate to be That Pedantic Guy but...
- Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:58 am
- Location: Chicago, IL
Re: Marvel Comics on Film
The answer to this is exceedingly simple - it's because Scorsese is not really talking about the use of CGI. The association between CGI and MCU is one that you've made, not him.
-
- Joined: Fri May 11, 2018 12:55 pm
Re: Marvel Comics on Film
That’s how I interpreted it when he said they are “...made like theme parks.” Granted his comments were vague.
- mfunk9786
- Under Chris' Protection
- Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
- Location: Philadelphia, PA
Re: Marvel Comics on Film
The last few times I've been on a roller coaster it was made of steel or wood, not CGI
-
- Joined: Fri May 11, 2018 12:55 pm
Re: Marvel Comics on Film
Apparently you haven’t been in a bit, or don’t have children, because VR is all over theme parks now. It’s almost as if there’s a theme now running through entertainment as varied as movies and theme parks...hell, there’s a VR-augmented roller coaster called DC Superhero Drop of Doom
There’s a VR theme park company called The Void, which has more than double the locations worldwide than six flags has (and yes, there is an avengers and Star Wars ride). So I’m not sure what your point is.
- mfunk9786
- Under Chris' Protection
- Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
- Location: Philadelphia, PA
Re: Marvel Comics on Film
That seems like something that Scorsese is definitely plugged into
-
- Joined: Fri May 11, 2018 12:55 pm
Re: Marvel Comics on Film
A broad trend in entertainment, one that influences his medium? Yea it does seem like something he’d be plugged into, specific cases aside.
- Brian C
- I hate to be That Pedantic Guy but...
- Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:58 am
- Location: Chicago, IL
Re: Marvel Comics on Film
What's your argument here, exactly? The presence of VR in modern theme parks aside, it remains the case that Scorsese didn't seem to be talking about CGI, considering that he's used CGI in his films himself, as have any number of critically renowned filmmakers.
-
- Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 6:49 am
Re: Marvel Comics on Film
Cameron and Spielberg’s 80-90s output (I cant vouch for Spielberg’s more recent movies, haven’t seen them) is very different to the MCU output which are virtually the same movie over and over again. I have seen 12 to date (up to the end of phase 2), like 4 of the them well enough to recommend, and don’t really think any of the 12 are terrible except maybe Age of Ultron. But there is very little variation between them apart from the identity of the heroes/villains and sometimes the general setting.
Although, I would take most of them over Avatar especially if we really do end up seeing Avatar 2-5.
Although, I would take most of them over Avatar especially if we really do end up seeing Avatar 2-5.
- movielocke
- Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am
Re: Marvel Comics on Film
On the other hand twenty years ago in film school, professors literally said things like “terminator isn’t cinema, Jurassic park isn’t film,” so this is also just what old people say about things that are less old. Grandpa Simpson yells at cloud.
And didn’t Coppola direct “captain eo”? An actual theme park attraction!
And didn’t Coppola direct “captain eo”? An actual theme park attraction!
- dda1996a
- Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:14 am
Re: Marvel Comics on Film
Did they ever say directing a theme park attraction was frowned upon? But there is a difference between that, or a Michael Jackson music video, to an actual film.movielocke wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:24 amOn the other hand twenty years ago in film school, professors literally said things like “terminator isn’t cinema, Jurassic park isn’t film,” so this is also just what old people say about things that are less old. Grandpa Simpson yells at cloud.
And didn’t Coppola direct “captain eo”? An actual theme park attraction!
And I don't think this is a generation gap disconnect, or an old man yelling at the young. Scorsese and his recent films never felt out of date or disconnected from our times, whatever you may say.
-
- Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 6:49 am
Re: Marvel Comics on Film
Theme parks are also virtually the same ride over and over again.
But yeah it must be because these people are old.
But yeah it must be because these people are old.
- FrauBlucher
- Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:28 pm
- Location: Greenwich Village
Re: Marvel Comics on Film
This is the point exactly. And this is not to be taken as an insult as I am closer to their age than the MCU crowd. But I think the point is they came from cinema. They cut their teeth watching cinema. As a kid Scorsese watched Powell and Pressburger, Italian neo-realism, Fellini and a little later the French New Wave. I'm sure Copolla followed the same path, as did Lucas who was all about Kurosawa which shows up in Star Wars. Int'l films and many American films from that same era were very influential to those filmmakers that started in the 60's. I believe this is more of what Scorsese was going for in his comments. They can't relate to or feel anything about this modern style of movie and movie making.
-
- Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 6:49 am
Re: Marvel Comics on Film
Maybe, but I think the over saturation also has a lot to do with it. If we got one every 2 years, you probably wouldn’t hear anything but we are getting 6-10 a year at the moment (to be fair not all are MCU).
And I am not sure it is just an age thing. I have no film background or film education, and I am 37 and only really got into regular movie watching in the early 2000s. As I say above, I have seen 12 of the MCU films so far, enjoyed most of them and quite liked 4 of them, but are they largely the same film over and over again. Yes I think they are.
And I am not sure it is just an age thing. I have no film background or film education, and I am 37 and only really got into regular movie watching in the early 2000s. As I say above, I have seen 12 of the MCU films so far, enjoyed most of them and quite liked 4 of them, but are they largely the same film over and over again. Yes I think they are.
- dda1996a
- Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:14 am
Re: Marvel Comics on Film
But the MCU films arent really a "modern style", especially not close to post modern films from the 90's like Tarantino, Jonze, Gondry, Kaufman, Nolan, Jarmusch etc. They aren't Fight Club or even Shrek. And I don't think it's specifically them being big budget blockbusters, as Scorsese and Coppola went through the 80's which were full of those films. I think the biggest problems are that all the Super hero films nowadays are basically just trying to be a really long, big budget series. They suffer from the same problems that caused me to stop reading the regular Marvel comic books, mainly their lack of singular self sufficient and dramatic arcs that really engage with the heroes (compare any of the MCU films to something like Batman Begins, and not just in the "it's edgier and darker" comparison). I don't think there is much difference between the MCU and something like Grey's Anatomy or a similar, long running TV series, just with a bigger budget and stars, and longer episodes. And on the other hand, specialty films have been taking a beating, so we are mostly stuck with Disney rehashes of the same thing in new clothing.FrauBlucher wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:11 amThis is the point exactly. And this is not to be taken as an insult as I am closer to their age than the MCU crowd. But I think the point is they came from cinema. They cut their teeth watching cinema. As a kid Scorsese watched Powell and Pressburger, Italian neo-realism, Fellini and a little later the French New Wave. I'm sure Copolla followed the same path, as did Lucas who was all about Kurosawa which shows up in Star Wars. Int'l films and many American films from that same era were very influential to those filmmakers that started in the 60's. I believe this is more of what Scorsese was going for in his comments. They can't relate to or feel anything about this modern style of movie and movie making.
Compare the old super hero films, like Raimi's Spider-Man, Burton and Nolan's Batman, to all these movies that come out. Big difference (in that they just copy the same story structure and beats as opposed to actual dramatic arcs as I said [just to be clear])
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: Marvel Comics on Film
I was at Coppola's press conference where he said that about Marvel, and unfortunately, the context of his full answer hasn't been given.
What Coppola included this short summary into was a more general point about a few studios currently being in the process of getting rich and accumulating wealth for the sole purpose of doing that. In a world where fortunes are getting done most often on the back of a part of the population getting poorer and poorer, he thinks doing movies with so little risks and so impersonal are a waste of human people and that this is despicable.
Then, he summed it up by saying "Martin was kind with them, I think what they're doing is despicable".
His press conference was very moving, more so than his masterclass the day before. He talked about utopia, and the state of the world in a very naive but optimistic way. To him, movies should be personal, because the people making them were 1 chance in a million to be born, so they should never make something anybody else could have done too.
What Coppola included this short summary into was a more general point about a few studios currently being in the process of getting rich and accumulating wealth for the sole purpose of doing that. In a world where fortunes are getting done most often on the back of a part of the population getting poorer and poorer, he thinks doing movies with so little risks and so impersonal are a waste of human people and that this is despicable.
Then, he summed it up by saying "Martin was kind with them, I think what they're doing is despicable".
His press conference was very moving, more so than his masterclass the day before. He talked about utopia, and the state of the world in a very naive but optimistic way. To him, movies should be personal, because the people making them were 1 chance in a million to be born, so they should never make something anybody else could have done too.
- Brian C
- I hate to be That Pedantic Guy but...
- Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:58 am
- Location: Chicago, IL
Re: Marvel Comics on Film
Thanks for the context tenia - good reporting! Perhaps Scorsese’s comments had more context than reported as well.
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: Marvel Comics on Film
I do wish Coppola didn't sum it up though, because without this final line, the reporting would have required the context explaining the lack of personality and the industrial-like aspect of these movies, plus the over-capitalistic wealth accumulation they generate. Sadly, he did sum it up, allowing for most media to simply report this quip in 2 sentences. Frémaux seemed quite happy about Coppola saying something like this though, I'm quite sure he anticipated the buzz it'd generate.
But it's unfortunate, because again, his press conference was very moving and the context in which he told this made much more sense than simply tackling these movies. What he tackled clearly was the money-insanity-driven aspect of the franchise. It reminds me of Good Night & Good Luck final line about TV being only "wires and lights in a box". What Coppola said, ultimately, to be despicable is wasting cinema to just making money and contenting shareholders with it.
But it's unfortunate, because again, his press conference was very moving and the context in which he told this made much more sense than simply tackling these movies. What he tackled clearly was the money-insanity-driven aspect of the franchise. It reminds me of Good Night & Good Luck final line about TV being only "wires and lights in a box". What Coppola said, ultimately, to be despicable is wasting cinema to just making money and contenting shareholders with it.
- mfunk9786
- Under Chris' Protection
- Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
- Location: Philadelphia, PA
Re: Marvel Comics on Film
Right, and Scorsese made a point of [at least implying] that very good actors are valuable resources who are being wasted on these projects. Which is very, very, very true.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: Marvel Comics on Film
Several other members have already taken you to task on this, but I can’t just let this slide without an additional pile-on. It’s funny how none of the superhero boosters had a problem with the age of these directors or their output or whatever else is being mocked here until they said something bad at their beloved “popular” film franchises. It’s entirely possible to defend these movies without resorting to low effort personal attacks on someone who disagrees with you. It might be worth thinking about why your first response to criticism was “Well, they’re just old, amirite,” because let me assure you of what you no doubt must already know: no franchise raking in this kind of money is solely appealing to or made for an exclusively young audience. And as the dominant cultural product right now (sad, but accurate), these movies are already doing just fine in the face of these dissents and don’t need such blind defending on their behalf, especially when it manifests in posts like the abovemovielocke wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:24 amOn the other hand twenty years ago in film school, professors literally said things like “terminator isn’t cinema, Jurassic park isn’t film,” so this is also just what old people say about things that are less old. Grandpa Simpson yells at cloud.
- dustybooks
- Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:52 am
- Location: Wilmington, NC
Re: Marvel Comics on Film
The thing that disturbs me most about the online response to all this is the idea that any well-respected director's opinion raises so many alarm bells everywhere and gets all these hackles up about old white men and snobbery and whatever else, as though Martin Scorsese somehow has the power, in these folks' conception, to single-handedly will the MCU out of existence. Whenever this sort of subject is raised on Twitter, someone invariably responds with the "let people enjoy things!" cartoon, and I can't get over how much work the word "let" is doing in that sentence; how confident can you possibly be about your own likes and dislikes if you desperately need those views to be shared by a person you don't know? It seems more infantile to me than the movies, which I don't really care either way about. And what it really says to me is that certain people are extremely defensive and guilty over how much this stuff dominates their media intake; whether they're right to feel that way is not for anyone else to say, but I can't think of any other reason why any statement against the stuff they love sends them into this tortured state of consternation over it. It's anti-intellectualism fused with a desperate for the approval of highbrow, and I don't see why one would expect the latter to be forthcoming in any era. Why would Chuck Jones praise Scooby Doo, whether you like Scooby Doo or not, and how does it weigh so much on your consciousness if he doesn't?
I know it's not a perfect comparison, but I keep imagining this kind of tribalism coming up with Bergman and Godard's dislike of each other's work -- Bergman fans not resting until Godard acknowledged the brilliance of the master, or vice versa. I just don't understand wanting that degree of impeccable validation for every opinion you can possibly hold, nor why there's so much resistance to acknowledging that the real problem being protested is less these films themselves (cynically manufactured popcorn movies not being a new phenomenon) than the way they and the accompanying brand of entertainment they represent have shut out everything else in regional cinemas, to which I can readily attest.
I know it's not a perfect comparison, but I keep imagining this kind of tribalism coming up with Bergman and Godard's dislike of each other's work -- Bergman fans not resting until Godard acknowledged the brilliance of the master, or vice versa. I just don't understand wanting that degree of impeccable validation for every opinion you can possibly hold, nor why there's so much resistance to acknowledging that the real problem being protested is less these films themselves (cynically manufactured popcorn movies not being a new phenomenon) than the way they and the accompanying brand of entertainment they represent have shut out everything else in regional cinemas, to which I can readily attest.