958 4 Months, 3 Weeks and 2 Days
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: Worthing
- Contact:
- jbeall
- Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:22 am
- Location: Atlanta-ish
I didn't really know where to put this, but I just saw Mungiu's Occident a couple of days ago and loved it. There isn't a snowball's chance in hell of it getting a dvd release it needs (it gives new meaning to the phrase "shot on a shoestring budget", and apparently the rightsholders wants beaucoup $$$ now that Mungiu's famous), but it's very funny and completely unlike 4 Months... I emailed Mulvaney to suggest it just for the hell of it.
Anyway, if you can get your hands on a copy, I definitely recommend Occident.
Anyway, if you can get your hands on a copy, I definitely recommend Occident.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
This was quite a wonderful film. I was particularly happy that it never took the easy route out by giving the film a pat ending, which would have in my mind been cheap and ruined the mechanical drive that keeps our heroine constantly moving forward-- the film was a braver version of Jeanne Dielman, with the courage to forgo the cheap conclusion of Akerman's film (Spare me hate-filled retorts about this).
- foggy eyes
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:58 am
- Location: UK
David, totally agree, but I think it is precisely the sheer formal rigour of 4 Months that might encourage one to think of Jeanne Dielman. Although Mungiu's technique is far more involved than Akerman's, and his film certainly far more "dramatic", both achieve a similarly remarkable level of intensity through sustained durational observation. Rewatching Akerman's film, I find it amazing that the mundane routines of Jeanne's everyday activity during the second and third days of JD become as unbearably "charged" as the similarly extended yet far more emotionally direct sequences in 4 Months (such as the goldfish bowl shot that magnifies Otilia's anxiety during the dinner party). A superficial comparison, perhaps, but certainly one that could serve to underline the effectiveness of both styles.davidhare wrote:I simply cannot make any connection between this fine movie and Akermann's masterpiece. The only conceivable similarity is that both are highly formal, and both movies express their meanings largely through form.
- foggy eyes
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:58 am
- Location: UK
Yes, I guess I'm not really making much of a point - these are indeed two very different long take/sequence shot styles, but I suppose what interests me is how sustained observation produces such a different effect in both films (which, as usual, you've outlined very nicely). The relentless unbroken camera movement accentuates dramaticness in 4 Months, whereas the static and distancing set-ups in Jeanne Dielmann serve to underscore their undramaticness - contrasting effects achieved through a similar device (very long takes) but not technique. This makes the sequences in JD involving purely through the rhythm of Jeanne's activity and movement within the frame, also calling us to pay attention to routines and details that will achieve heightened significance when they begin to unravel. There is of course barely any time or real need to do this during 4 Months.
Absolutely!The final result of Akermann's film is to compeltely alter your state of consciousness. Not only subjectively, but perceptually.
- zedz
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm
Yes yes yes. This is absolutely my experience of the film. Though I'm with Domino in my opinion of the 'climactic' ending, which is the element that seems to me the most dated. It's also so unnecessary given how much more devastating the gradual accrual of discordant elements that David points out has been. The shot immediately before the 'payoff', in which Seyrig renders Jeanne's panic and desperation so potently, is a far more powerful and distressing climax. The coup de grace, on the other hand, dispels all that tension with a false resolution ("oh, so that's what it's all about"). But the greatness of the rest of the film makes it easy to forgive.davidhare wrote:I think Akermann's mise en scene, and technique is the more radical of the two for a number of reasons. For one thing the shots are enitrely static, and their duration gives rise to rhythms which you only begin to realize has lulled you ( the spectator) into false certainties as the movie enters the third act, and the rhythms begin to alter, just as Delphine herself begings to fumble, dropping cutlery, or breaking the routine patterns of timing to enter and leave one room for the hallway or another room, or even neglect to turn the light off - of such minute gestures and actions is her life inscribed. IN tandem with this Akerman subtly but devastatingly changes the edit points, and the duration of shots.
The final result of Akermann's film is to compeltely alter your state of consciousness. Not only subjectively, but perceptually.
Mungiu's film is similarly accomplished, and with just as precise a match of form to content, but his realism is much more in the Dardennes, Clarke and, dare I say it, Loach vein than Akerman's Martian (Marxian?) realism.
- foggy eyes
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:58 am
- Location: UK
I don't have any real problems with the resolution/climax/whatever it is myself (probably confusing me with domino, David!). Any potential textual imbalance created by Jeanne's action is, for me, counterbalanced by the final extended shot that somehow manages to give away nothing and suggest everything at the same time. As Seyrig sits at the table, the shifting light from the window forming patterns across her profile, and her expression going through a series of barely perceptible registers, the effect is so enigmatic that it opens up a whole host of other questions and possibilities (creating, alongside the act itself, the "byways" that David mentions). Maybe the issue of whether the "surprise twist" is effective or justified depends on how one experiences or interprets this shot - for me it is the real climax, and I'm sure it would not exert the power it does without the action upon which it reflects.
- zedz
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm
Oddly enough, these possibilities never even occurred to me, which may be one of the reasons it 'closes off' rather than 'opens up' the film for me. Jeanne's gradual breakdown throughout the film suggests to me not the former; and her state at the end suggests that she wouldn't be able to get it together to cover anything up. Unless she's going to breadcrumb an awful lot of schnitzel.davidhare wrote: I wonder if this has happened before, or will happen again.
I like the way we're pussyfooting around the spoilers here. Is there anybody remotely interested in the film who doesn't know how it ends? For the longest time it was about the only thing I did know for sure about it!
- Lemmy Caution
- Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:26 am
- Location: East of Shanghai
Actually I have no idea and was ready to go into rapid skim mode when spoilers started appearing.zedz wrote:I like the way we're pussyfooting around the spoilers here. Is there anybody remotely interested in the film who doesn't know how it ends? For the longest time it was about the only thing I did know for sure about it!
Then again I still have no idea of the twist in The Sixth Sense, which seems to leave some incredulous.. I do hope the Dvd of Jeanne Dielmann turns up soon.
Carry on ...
- toiletduck!
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:43 pm
- Location: The 'Go
- Contact:
It's apparently coming to the Siskel Film Center in June, for all you Chicago or willing to make the trip to Chicago folk out there.jbeall wrote:I didn't really know where to put this, but I just saw Mungiu's Occident a couple of days ago and loved it. There isn't a snowball's chance in hell of it getting a dvd release it needs (it gives new meaning to the phrase "shot on a shoestring budget", and apparently the rightsholders wants beaucoup $$$ now that Mungiu's famous), but it's very funny and completely unlike 4 Months... I emailed Mulvaney to suggest it just for the hell of it.
Anyway, if you can get your hands on a copy, I definitely recommend Occident.
-Toilet Dcuk
- tavernier
- Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:18 pm
It's playing at Lincoln Center this Thursday at 1 PM.toiletduck! wrote:It's apparently coming to the Siskel Film Center in June, for all you Chicago or willing to make the trip to Chicago folk out there.jbeall wrote:I just saw Mungiu's Occident a couple of days ago and loved it. ...
I definitely recommend Occident.
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- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:39 am
- Der Müde Tod
- Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:50 am
I saw and grabbed a "Borders exclusive" DVD of this film, which is listed at Beaver with a US release of July 14. The cashier asked me if I had seen the film, it was supposed to be really good. =D>
In any case, I was very impressed, and many of the images will stay in my mind for a long time.
SpoilerShow
The film is not so much about the reasons behind the abortion - there is never a doubt that it has to happen - but rather about the consequences of actually performing one under the circumstances (Romania in the 1980s). These are distilled into 90 intense minutes, where we see the world of Otilia fall apart. There is no good or evil in this film - even the "Dr. Bebe" stays in a chilling equilibrium by demanding/accepting his payment. I find it difficult to find comparable films. Kieslowski's "A short film about killing", or Kluge's "Part-Time Work of a Domestic Slave" are in certain ways similar.
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- Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:36 pm
4 Months, 3 weeks and 4 days
This is easily one of the best films of 2007. The simplicity of the style allows the viewer to become enmeshed in the harsh reality of life behind the Iron Curtain and to embrace the painful struggles of its characters. The relationship between Ottila and Gabita serves as a metaphor for the pangs of sisterhood and more importantly illustrates that there is still a great deal of work to be done in teaching people about women's rights.
The illicit methods required to help these young women are heartbreaking and perhaps prescient if men like John McCain have their way and Roe vs. Wade is overturned in the US. The level of intimacy and bravery on display in this film in the way it addresses these young women's day-to-day existence in this harsh and repressive state may be read on multiple levels and this is one of the reasons that this film will remain relevant and of interest.
Also what this film demonstrates is that Romania is a thriving film community where simple style is used to address very dark and complex issues like abortion, memory, friendship, and the pressures of life in a authoritarian state. For a comedic approach to these issues see 1208 East of Bucharest.
The illicit methods required to help these young women are heartbreaking and perhaps prescient if men like John McCain have their way and Roe vs. Wade is overturned in the US. The level of intimacy and bravery on display in this film in the way it addresses these young women's day-to-day existence in this harsh and repressive state may be read on multiple levels and this is one of the reasons that this film will remain relevant and of interest.
Also what this film demonstrates is that Romania is a thriving film community where simple style is used to address very dark and complex issues like abortion, memory, friendship, and the pressures of life in a authoritarian state. For a comedic approach to these issues see 1208 East of Bucharest.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
It looks better opened up in 1.78. There is however an entire page of the DVDBeaver thread where Gary throws a temper tantrum at me and David Hare for saying so.mfunk9786 wrote:4 Months, 3 Weeks, 2 Days... the American release has aspect ratio issues anyway (it's 1.78:1 when it should be 2.35:1. R2 is the way to go regardless of where it's being sold, unless it's fixed for its October [re-]release.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
There's no evidence that it wasn't intended to be both. It looks too good at 1.78 to not have been considered with both aspect ratios in mind. It seriously looks like shit in 2.35 and Gary's caps actually convinced me to seek out the R1. Take thatmfunk9786 wrote:Doesn't mean it's the intended ratio, though.
- foggy eyes
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:58 am
- Location: UK
Really? I like the fact that there are DVDs with both ratios in existence, but it looks much better to me in 2.35: tighter and more claustrophic. The sense of confinement works especially well in the dinner sequence, and strikes me as a much more effective balance of form and content - 1.78 feels too open, somehow less volatile.domino harvey wrote:It seriously looks like shit in 2.35 and Gary's caps actually convinced me to seek out the R1. Take that
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm