457 Magnificent Obsession
-
- Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:18 am
I'm delighted by the extras listing, but it kills me that this film gets all the goodies while IMO Written On The Wind and my favorite, Imitation Of Life got the shaft (I know the new DVD for the latter is nice but I still wish it could get the Criterion treatment). I saw Magnificent Obsession on TCM a couple years ago and while I enjoyed it (and still can't quite understand the hokey and fun philosophy involved), it's nowhere near Imitation... or Written... for me, or even The Tarnished Angels, which I adored and wish wasn't in B&W (though it looks beautiful anyway).
- HerrSchreck
- Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am
Specs updated:
If you want a brand new release in academy plus the Stahl, theres the R4 MadmanFilm Info
1954
108 minutes
Color
2.00:1
Dolby Digital Mono 1.0
Not Anamorphic
English
- jsteffe
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:00 am
- Location: Atlanta, GA
If you really want a full frame version of MO, you can get the 2-disc French edition, which also includes the Stahl.
-
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:27 pm
- Location: London, UK
Re: 457 Magnificent Obsession
Image is starting to put up trailers for Criterion releases on YouTube. Here's the trailer for Magnificent Obsession (the ratio is a nice taster of what's to come) and has unfortunately reminded me of my less-than-overwhelmed reaction upon seeing it (which was at the height of my Sirk fever).
It's not trash somehow transformed into greatness, like All That Heaven Allows (and if you ever have any doubts how silly the script for that film is, close your eyes while watching it); it's not even a ludicrous premise taken to operatic heights, like The Fury; it's just junk played out with minimum embarrassment for all concerned and a technical exercise for Sirk (warming up his palette, so to speak). Not that I regret seeing it, but I'm glad my birthday's around the time of the DVD release because I couldn't look bring myself to click the button for those extras otherwise.
It's not trash somehow transformed into greatness, like All That Heaven Allows (and if you ever have any doubts how silly the script for that film is, close your eyes while watching it); it's not even a ludicrous premise taken to operatic heights, like The Fury; it's just junk played out with minimum embarrassment for all concerned and a technical exercise for Sirk (warming up his palette, so to speak). Not that I regret seeing it, but I'm glad my birthday's around the time of the DVD release because I couldn't look bring myself to click the button for those extras otherwise.
- kaujot
- Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 6:28 pm
- Location: Austin
- Contact:
- HerrSchreck
- Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am
Re: 457 Magnificent Obsession
As far as widescreen editions of the film go, it looks-- colorwise-- decent enough. I'd have loved to see side by sides with the UK release.
-
- Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:31 pm
Re: 457 Magnificent Obsession
The grain would be mostly the same between the two if they were to use the same source. So, an open matte transfer would sort of appear slightly less grainy, but only because it's being shrunk down more. Most of the time for matted widescreen films with dual formats available (like, let's say, The Producers '68), you can see very little difference. Usually the differences in grain structure have more to do with the quality of the transfers or sources.david hare wrote:They've managed to "refine" the grain which is way too coarse on the UK disc (and Oz disc.) One of the reasons for coarse grain is because the 2.00 mask requires they blow up the open matte optical 1.37 image and then crop, resulting in much higher grain than, say, an anamorphic print. As far as color goes all the source prints seem to be Eastman - you can tell by the popping on opticals and the blueish tinge - this extends to the Carlotta. It would seem there's no IB answer print.
I have nothing else to say on this movie or this title or this edition.
Technicolor prints are suitable for 35mm projection only and usually for color reference. Generally dye-transfer is unsuitable for digital transfers, which is why 99% of the time studios either use new internegatives/interpositives or scan the color records separately.
Deleted scenes would obviously be more likely to survive only as prints, but I really don't think "Indian Epic" was sourced from dye-transfer. Is that what the restoration notes say or just from observation? It looks like they transfered the negative or a new interpositive from looking at the contrast values and sharpness.I realize this is a generally accepted truism among tehnical people but there are - very few - direct transfers to telecine from IB prints. The Lang Indian duo on Fantoma for one, and odds and ends like the "Mr Monotony" outtakes on the Easter Parade Extras.
Last edited by Oggilby on Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- Bob Furmanek
- Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:59 am
Re: 457 Magnificent Obsession
As a matter of studio policy, Universal-International had Technicolor make YCM (yellow, cyan, magenta) separations on every single-strip Eastman color production during that period.david hare wrote:The problem with MO appears to be that there is NO Ib print or indeed separation negaties for doing a new interneg, given it's 1954 it's likely that MO was shot on single strip Eastman neg stock like Rear Window and no separations were ever even made.
The seps on MO still exist and were utilized to create a new preservation 35mm interpositive in the mid-90's. That IP has been used for telecine, and an original release 35mm dye-transfer Technicolor positive print was utilized for color reference.
- Bob Furmanek
- Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:59 am
Re: 457 Magnificent Obsession
Don't worry, no preservation film elements were lost in the recent studio fire. However, the original 35mm IB studio print may now be gone. Fortunately, 35mm prints do exist from other sources.
In fact, if you're not opposed to 16mm (aka "the children's format") an original full-frame 16mm dye-transfer print was recently offered on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/16mm-Film-54-MAGNIF ... dZViewItem" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Quite often, the seps were made at the time of production and never checked. Notice the blue blotch under Hudson's ear in this image:
That indicates some damage to the yellow record.
When separation elements are utilized for preservation and restoration, many such problems are discovered for the first time. In addition, differential shrinkage creates registration issues which you have noticed at the start of reel two.
In fact, if you're not opposed to 16mm (aka "the children's format") an original full-frame 16mm dye-transfer print was recently offered on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/16mm-Film-54-MAGNIF ... dZViewItem" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Quite often, the seps were made at the time of production and never checked. Notice the blue blotch under Hudson's ear in this image:
That indicates some damage to the yellow record.
When separation elements are utilized for preservation and restoration, many such problems are discovered for the first time. In addition, differential shrinkage creates registration issues which you have noticed at the start of reel two.
-
- Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:55 am
Re: 457 Magnificent Obsession
David, your post has put into words the great unspoken fear underlying all of the OAR controversies that have raged here (and elsewhere) of late, i.e. that corporate economic forces are conspiring to fill all these millions upon millions of 16x9 monitors by any means necessary. By enlarging 1.33 and shrinking 2.35 to create "one common unifying ratio to unite all mankind" they can sell a standardized product with no retrofitting or technical explanations (i.e. "product education") to the great unwashed that want their viddie screens filled just like their buffet plates. In the end it's all about volume sales to a dumbed down populace that has little or no real technology skills or knowledge of media history and even less inclination to acquire them. And art and history (and art history) be damned.
- zedz
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm
Re: 457 Magnificent Obsession
I recently had a weird experience that illustrates this point.
We were watching a widescreen DVD at an older relative's place, and the image was all squished to fill the 4:3 screen. Assuming the non-AR savvy host didn't realise what the problem was, or didn't know how to fix it, we tactfully tried to draw his attention to it ("ooh, look, the people are all squished up") and wrest the remote from them to sort it out.
However, it turned out that they actually knew what the problem was but preferred to watch the image all distorted but screen-filling. "But everything's all squished up!" we cried. To which the reply was: "Oh, you get used to that."
The host then changed to the correct settings (to show us that he knew how to do it) and we had to meekly ask, "do you mind if we watch it like this?" The reply was a harrumphy "yes, but if it's important to you. . ."
We were watching a widescreen DVD at an older relative's place, and the image was all squished to fill the 4:3 screen. Assuming the non-AR savvy host didn't realise what the problem was, or didn't know how to fix it, we tactfully tried to draw his attention to it ("ooh, look, the people are all squished up") and wrest the remote from them to sort it out.
However, it turned out that they actually knew what the problem was but preferred to watch the image all distorted but screen-filling. "But everything's all squished up!" we cried. To which the reply was: "Oh, you get used to that."
The host then changed to the correct settings (to show us that he knew how to do it) and we had to meekly ask, "do you mind if we watch it like this?" The reply was a harrumphy "yes, but if it's important to you. . ."
- Antoine Doinel
- Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:22 pm
- Location: Montreal, Quebec
- Contact:
Re: 457 Magnificent Obsession
Remember in the early days of DVD when studios offered both ratios on one disc? Why can't they apply the same logic here. The actual ratio for people who know what they're doing and the "FILL UP THE WHOLE DERN SCREEN CUZ THAT WHAT IZE PAYED FOR" ratio for everyone else?
- CSM126
- Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:22 am
- Location: The Room
- Contact:
Re: 457 Magnificent Obsession
Because that would require a double-sided disc which would fuck with criterion's obsession with branding every possible surface of their packages (flippers can't have disc art, of course).Antoine Doinel wrote:Remember in the early days of DVD when studios offered both ratios on one disc? Why can't they apply the same logic here. The actual ratio for people who know what they're doing and the "FILL UP THE WHOLE DERN SCREEN CUZ THAT WHAT IZE PAYED FOR" ratio for everyone else?
- Antoine Doinel
- Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:22 pm
- Location: Montreal, Quebec
- Contact:
Re: 457 Magnificent Obsession
I wasn't speaking of Criterion specifically.CSM126 wrote:Because that would require a double-sided disc which would fuck with criterion's obsession with branding every possible surface of their packages (flippers can't have disc art, of course).Antoine Doinel wrote:Remember in the early days of DVD when studios offered both ratios on one disc? Why can't they apply the same logic here. The actual ratio for people who know what they're doing and the "FILL UP THE WHOLE DERN SCREEN CUZ THAT WHAT IZE PAYED FOR" ratio for everyone else?
- subliminac
- Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:21 am
- Location: Columbus, OH
Re: 457 Magnificent Obsession
Or the philistines could just hit the zoom or stretch button on their tv remotes and leave the rest of us happy with our black bars.Antoine Doinel wrote:Remember in the early days of DVD when studios offered both ratios on one disc? Why can't they apply the same logic here. The actual ratio for people who know what they're doing and the "FILL UP THE WHOLE DERN SCREEN CUZ THAT WHAT IZE PAYED FOR" ratio for everyone else?
- HerrSchreck
- Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am
Re: 457 Magnificent Obsession
Some co's still do it, thank god. Like the relatively recent issue of The Panic In Needle Park from Fox had the WS on one side and academy on the other.Antoine Doinel wrote:Remember in the early days of DVD when studios offered both ratios on one disc? Why can't they apply the same logic here. The actual ratio for people who know what they're doing and the "FILL UP THE WHOLE DERN SCREEN CUZ THAT WHAT IZE PAYED FOR" ratio for everyone else?
- Antoine Doinel
- Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:22 pm
- Location: Montreal, Quebec
- Contact:
Re: 457 Magnificent Obsession
I don't give the philistines enough credit to know where or how to use the zoom/stretch buttons.subliminac wrote:Or the philistines could just hit the zoom or stretch button on their tv remotes and leave the rest of us happy with our black bars.Antoine Doinel wrote:Remember in the early days of DVD when studios offered both ratios on one disc? Why can't they apply the same logic here. The actual ratio for people who know what they're doing and the "FILL UP THE WHOLE DERN SCREEN CUZ THAT WHAT IZE PAYED FOR" ratio for everyone else?
- cdnchris
- Site Admin
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:45 pm
- Location: Washington
- Contact:
- Michael
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:09 pm
Re: 457 Magnificent Obsession
Sirk films being released on DVD is always the best reason to celebrate. Although I've never been a fan of Magnificent Obsession, maybe this new release will change my mind. Having seen it twice on VHS, I found it a bit messy and silly. But if that's what took Rock and Jane to appear in the next film All That Heaven Allows - Sirk's most sublime masterpiece, the greatest American film, then perhaps I shouldn't complain about Magnificent Obsession. The quiet grace and beauty of All That Heavevn Allows crystallizes a rare gem, that couldn't be found in other Sirks, in my opinion... even though I love the fun Written on the Wind and the fantastically ambitious emotional epic Imitation of Life.
I'm looking forward to revaluating Magnificent Obsession. Anyone a staunch fan of MO?
I'm looking forward to revaluating Magnificent Obsession. Anyone a staunch fan of MO?
- Matt
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:58 pm
Re: 457 Magnificent Obsession
Not here. I'm in agreement with you that it's a silly film. And every time I watch it to re-evaluating it, it gets sillier. I think it's only useful as a warm-up to the infinitely superior All That Heaven Allows.Michael wrote:I'm looking forward to revaluating Magnificent Obsession. Anyone a staunch fan of MO?