Awards Season 2019

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domino harvey
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Re: Awards Season 2019

#826 Post by domino harvey » Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:24 pm

movielocke wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:11 pm
Thus after the back to back Roma+Parasite run we will probably see no such crossover for international films for the next couple years and possibly the academy will institute a rule change to prevent further international films escaping their proper ghetto (like the rule changes instituted after Up and Toy Story were nominated for best picture in back to back years).
Huh? From the Oscar's site for the current submission guidelines:
D.Films submitted in the Animated Feature Film category qualify for Academy Awards in other categories, including Best Picture.

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BenoitRouilly
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Re: Awards Season 2019

#827 Post by BenoitRouilly » Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:50 pm

So Parasite is the first and only (foreignlanguage) film worthy enough to compete (in the Best Picture category) with Hollywood movies and win at the Oscars?

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movielocke
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am

Re: Awards Season 2019

#828 Post by movielocke » Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:07 pm

The years that Up and Toy Story 3 were nominated were the first and only two years when the BP category was expanded to ten. After those two years, various rule changes and qualification standards were set in place that has resulted in the floating 5-10 number of nominees (actually always 8 or 9 nominees as it turns out).

It's buried in the rules changes, but the minimum qualification percentages to become eligible for best picture were set at a level that "conveniently" is slightly larger than the animation branch of the academy. Within the animation world, this was quietly viewed as basically the academy specifically setting _that_ threshold so that animated films would _not_ be nominated every year.

And since an instant runoff ballot like best picture nominations is an extremely easy ballot to game within a small ghettoized subsection (animation) of a small community (the academy), the animation division could/would have guaranteed an animated film nominated in most years simply by a relatively small amount of people (who are all friends anyway) to bloc vote animated films as their 1 2 and 3 votes, when nominating.

in an instant run off, it would more or less guarantee that all the animation best picture nomination votes would accrue to an animated film and to nowhere else and would maximize the value of their votes, especially if live action doesn't have a strong bloc to work the game theory on.

***

There will probably be SIGNIFICANT changes to the oscars and probably rule changes to forestall future international films from being eligible for best picture because the numbers are in and this year is the all time lowest ratings in oscar history. Down 20% from last year and down 10% from the previous all time low (two years ago).

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-a ... l-time-low

The academy has successfully made its membership more diverse and international since oscars so white, but if they want to stop the ratings dive they need to get more people into the academy that understand what comprises contemporary blockbusters. Let's take the fail of the VFX category this year as an example, because VFX is usually a proxy for blockbusters: The mediocre and wildly inconsistent de-aging of the Irishmen was nominated for visual effects over the far superior and better executed de-aging visual effects in Captain Marvel, for example. the same visual effects "expert committee" in the academy shortlisted CATS as one of the 10 best VFX films of the year, over far more deserving films that didn't make the shortlist (Spiderman is the one that comes to mind first). And then the academy actually picked 1917 for the oscar, but 1917 was some sky replacements/set extensions, a handful of digital+practical explosion rigs and stitching together the A+B sides of shots so they seem seamless (shot to be seamless of course, what a challenge!). compared to the flawless and staggering vfx of End Game, it's a joke how much institutional ignorance that category displayed this year (and that category is usually not too bad, but this year was kind of especially crappy across the board from shortlist to final award).

I'm not calling for a popular film award, but expanding the technical side of the academy by bringing more people into the academy who are actual contemporary experts in their fields (rather than relying on (mostly) long retired experts) and are making films today could go a long ways. Films like Fury Road and Black Panther getting the recognition they deserve should be the norm for the oscars, not the outlier. (of course the blockbusters have to be that good as well, which is very much not a given).

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kcota17
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Awards Season 2019

#829 Post by kcota17 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:25 pm

If it becomes all about ratings to the point that ridiculous scenarios are just going to hinder the awards with no impact then you might as well just cancel the damn telecast from here on out. Make it a private ceremony with highlights available online. It seems like it’s inevitable that less and less people are going to watch the ceremony and there isn’t one issue that’s going to fix it. It doesn’t matter if you make it more diverse, through in more blockbusters or flashy performances.

The fact of the matter is is it’s just an outdated concept now. Older audiences are losing interest because they associate the Oscars with the political left and younger audiences don’t care because no one younger than 30 outside of cinephiles wants to tune into broadcast television for a 4 hour long telecast.

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DarkImbecile
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Re: Awards Season 2019

#830 Post by DarkImbecile » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:31 pm

The Academy or ABC believing that there's some correlation between Parasite and the Oscars ratings would be incredibly foolish, even without doing something as absurd as instituting a rule change to prevent international films from competing for Best Picture. All awards shows are hitting their all-time lows, as are all other television broadcasts. The Oscars are still annually one of the half-dozen or so largest single-night draws, beaten only by big NFL games. Flailing about hoping to reverse a ratings slide that is baked in to the structure of broadcast television itself makes no sense. They could render the awards meaningless by only allowing superhero films to receive nominations and still hemorrhage viewers each year for the foreseeable future.

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therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: Awards Season 2019

#831 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:39 pm

DarkImbecile wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:38 pm
Because therewillbeblus has already seen and written about it (and I think he's the only one among those who competed, unless I missed someone), I'll tag him on one of the most overlooked films of 2018/2019 (depending on whether you go by international or US release dates), László Nemes' Sunset, which is currently streaming on Amazon in 4K but unfortunately does not yet have a US physical release. Highly recommended to all, of course, but twbb is the only one I'll harass until he's seen it.
Deal, and thanks! I have actually been periodically checking my library for preorders on a physical release for months, off of your praise no less, so excited to know that a) there’s a place I can watch it, and b) I can stop obsessively checking this catalogue for no reason.

Also, I couldn’t find I Lost My Body either so thanks for the tip on Netflix. Damn, I should really consider checking big streaming platforms before I give up so easily, said the man who finally realized he was old

Nasir007
Joined: Sat May 25, 2019 11:58 am

Re: Awards Season 2019

#832 Post by Nasir007 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:20 pm

My thoughts about the overall ceremony

Standing Ovations

Janelle Monae
NOT Brad Pitt
NOT Laura Dern
Eminem
Cynthia Erivo
Bong Joon Ho - Internationl Film
Hildur G
Elton John and Taupin
Bong Joon Ho - Director
Martin Scorsese
J Phoenix
J Phoenix - At the end of his speech
Renee Relweggar
Jane Fonda
Parasite


Best

Mixed Clip Package for Acting nominees - saves time
Parasite wins Screenplay, Director & Picture and speeches
Shia Labeouf co-presenting with Zach Gottsagen
Kristen Wiig & Maya Rudolph presenting
Utkarsh Ambudkar Rap
Rebel Wilson and James Corden presenting
Olivia Colman presenting
Score nominees actually being performed
Tarantino snubbed in Writing and Directing
Mendes snubbed in Writing and Directing
Woman presenting best picture solo (second year in a row no less!)
Abandoned introductions to the Best Picture nominees - saves time

Worst

Janelle's Opening - Took away time, Without Context, Seemed random though I think she herself is (or rather should be a superstar) They could have saved time by having one of the nominated songs instead
Brad Pitt Speech - awful awful awful
Presenters to introduce presenters
Diane Keaton - She gave the envelop to Reeves so that she did not have to read the Asian names and then tried to give the trophy to the translator because she did not know who the winners were.
Songs Montage to introduce Eminem - awful. Enough with the fucking montages.
J Phoenix Speech
Renee Relweggar Speech
Standing Ovations - they mean less when everything and everyone gets one
In Memorium - The performance was nice, I just think it should have been cut for time, the show was too long
Length - At 3h35 it was ridiculously long. The ratings are the worst ever.

WTF

Eminem

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therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: Awards Season 2019

#833 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:47 pm

Nasir007 wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:20 pm
Best
Rebel Wilson and James Corden presenting

Worst
In Memorium - The performance was nice, I just think it should have been cut for time, the show was too long
They should def have snubbed some deceased heroes in the industry and issued that respect to more Cats jokes

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Toland's Mitchell
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:42 pm

Re: Awards Season 2019

#834 Post by Toland's Mitchell » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:08 am

Toland's Mitchell wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:48 pm
Predictions

Picture: 1917...

...Please don't give 1917 best picture. Prove me wrong.
What do you know, the academy pleasantly surprised me by awarding the better of the two front-runners. That's cool. I'm kinda glad I didn't do well in the predictions game. For one, I'm not sure I want to know their voting preferences too well. And two, I think I prefer watching something else via CF's game. Maybe the prize is in losing the game? I don't know. I enjoyed I Lost My Body. I just got around to posting about it. What's our new prize?

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DarkImbecile
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Re: Awards Season 2019

#835 Post by DarkImbecile » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:23 am

Toland's Mitchell wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:08 am
What's our new prize?
See here

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Toland's Mitchell
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:42 pm

Re: Awards Season 2019

#836 Post by Toland's Mitchell » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:05 am

Cool beans. Look forward to seeing it!

felipe
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 11:06 pm

Re: Awards Season 2019

#837 Post by felipe » Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:46 am

BenoitRouilly wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:50 pm
So Parasite is the first and only (foreignlanguage) film worthy enough to compete (in the Best Picture category) with Hollywood movies and win at the Oscars?
I think this is a tricky one. I'm fine with the Oscars being an American thing to celebrate American films. But as they try to go global and include international voices they risk looking even more unfair. Like, this year only one international film was "good enough" to compete alongside the 8 American films.

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knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: Awards Season 2019

#838 Post by knives » Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:54 am

A foreign film with a traditional American release platform directed by someone who has worked in America before.

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BenoitRouilly
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:49 pm

Re: Awards Season 2019

#839 Post by BenoitRouilly » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:19 pm

True. The Oscars is an american thing, but their rules get foggy. The Artist won Best Picture and it was French.
I like that a Korean filmmaker is celebrated by the Oscars, and it is even more significant because it won the Cannes Palme d'or as well.
The Oscars are going North and Cannes is going South... soon they'll meet eachother.

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Fiery Angel
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Re: Awards Season 2019

#840 Post by Fiery Angel » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:32 pm


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domino harvey
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Re: Awards Season 2019

#841 Post by domino harvey » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:34 pm

I’m already laughing at the title, this is going to be great

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tenia
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Re: Awards Season 2019

#842 Post by tenia » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:44 pm

I'm not sure what I like best in White's articles : how his rants unwillingly often seem to apply to himself or how he writes in a quite high style but often seem to do so to hide how little he writes actually is objectively true.

About the ratings : such an overlong ceremony is bound nowadays and every new year to be less and less watched. Why would I bother when it will take me 5 minutes to read the results tomorrow ? I dont want to see that many ads breaks, endless and countless floating moments inbetween awards and speeches, etc etc.

I also highly doubt nominating more popular movies will change anything, even if they end up winning. Was the ceremony where Black Panther got noms more watched ? I don't recall so.

felipe
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 11:06 pm

Re: Awards Season 2019

#843 Post by felipe » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:52 pm

knives wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:54 am
A foreign film with a traditional American release platform directed by someone who has worked in America before.
So you believe this was an exceptional case and will not make people expect the Academy to be more representative of worldwide cinema from now on?

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movielocke
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am

Re: Awards Season 2019

#844 Post by movielocke » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:54 pm

tenia wrote:I'm not sure what I like best in White's articles : how his rants unwillingly often seem to apply to himself or how he writes in a quite high style but often seem to do so to hide how little he writes actually is objectively true.

About the ratings : such an overlong ceremony is bound nowadays and every new year to be less and less watched. Why would I bother when it will take me 5 minutes to read the results tomorrow ? I dont want to see that many ads breaks, endless and countless floating moments inbetween awards and speeches, etc etc.

I also highly doubt nominating more popular movies will change anything, even if they end up winning. Was the ceremony where Black Panther got noms more watched ? I don't recall so.

2020 is the all time low at 23.6 million viewers

2019 was 29.6 million viewers (black panther)

2018 was the previous all time low with 26.5 million viewers

So yes, black panther helped, but the highest ratings in the last ten years were for the 2014 ceremony when 12 years a slave won but was nominated with a strong box office wave of films like: captain Phillips, American hustle, gravity, and wolf of Wall Street.

That year got 43 million viewers.

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knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: Awards Season 2019

#845 Post by knives » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:59 pm

felipe wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:52 pm
knives wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:54 am
A foreign film with a traditional American release platform directed by someone who has worked in America before.
So you believe this was an exceptional case and will not make people expect the Academy to be more representative of worldwide cinema from now on?
No, just that this is comparable to Hamlet winning opening the door a crack. This will likely make it easier for foreign friends of Hollywood like The Secret in Your Eyes, but for a random foreign film no. Also there won't be any inclusive rules changes.

felipe
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 11:06 pm

Re: Awards Season 2019

#846 Post by felipe » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:39 pm

knives wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:59 pm
felipe wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:52 pm
knives wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:54 am
A foreign film with a traditional American release platform directed by someone who has worked in America before.
So you believe this was an exceptional case and will not make people expect the Academy to be more representative of worldwide cinema from now on?
No, just that this is comparable to Hamlet winning opening the door a crack. This will likely make it easier for foreign friends of Hollywood like The Secret in Your Eyes, but for a random foreign film no. Also there won't be any inclusive rules changes.
Just to be clear, I don't think this means the Academy will start nominating more foreign films, but I think this will create the expectation that more foreign films will be nominated. I can totally see a #OscarsSoAmerican next year if there are no foreign nominees for Best Picture or Director.

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knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: Awards Season 2019

#847 Post by knives » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:48 pm

That I don't believe for a second.

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tenia
Ask Me About My Bassoon
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am

Re: Awards Season 2019

#848 Post by tenia » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:56 pm

movielocke wrote:
tenia wrote:I'm not sure what I like best in White's articles : how his rants unwillingly often seem to apply to himself or how he writes in a quite high style but often seem to do so to hide how little he writes actually is objectively true.

About the ratings : such an overlong ceremony is bound nowadays and every new year to be less and less watched. Why would I bother when it will take me 5 minutes to read the results tomorrow ? I dont want to see that many ads breaks, endless and countless floating moments inbetween awards and speeches, etc etc.

I also highly doubt nominating more popular movies will change anything, even if they end up winning. Was the ceremony where Black Panther got noms more watched ? I don't recall so.

2020 is the all time low at 23.6 million viewers

2019 was 29.6 million viewers (black panther)

2018 was the previous all time low with 26.5 million viewers

So yes, black panther helped, but the highest ratings in the last ten years were for the 2014 ceremony when 12 years a slave won but was nominated with a strong box office wave of films like: captain Phillips, American hustle, gravity, and wolf of Wall Street.

That year got 43 million viewers.
Thanks for these. I guess I'll have soon a closer look at the audiences for the past 20 years.

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domino harvey
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Re: Awards Season 2019

#849 Post by domino harvey » Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:02 pm

That ceremony was so well-watched because of the host... This year’s ceremony nominated far more box office hits than usual. There’s just a general decline in viewership across the board for awards shows, literally nothing in terms of nominated films would have changed that this year

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therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: Awards Season 2019

#850 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:15 pm

I think it was 3-4 years ago when I was in grad school we read a study where the third most common activity Americans engaged in was watching Netflix (an average of slightly over two hours a day) following only work and sleep. For context, stuff like "playing outside" and "having sex" or "eating" were veryyyy low numbers - you're taking into account the whole population so generally skewed for outliers (I think the fourth place went to TV at around an hour, and then eating which was like collectively around 30 minutes a day), so the fact that Netflix (not even TV, NETFLIX) was an average of two hours a day, beating tv, says enough about where we're going and what we're doing to me (think of the people who don't have Netflix bringing that number down too...) I'm not surprised in the least that these awards ceremonies aren't watched. I don't even have any basic TV channels, we streamed it from Oklahoma.

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