Ad Astra (James Gray, 2019)

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terabin
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Re: Ad Astra (James Gray, 2019)

#101 Post by terabin » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:28 pm

DarkImbecile wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:27 pm
An Overlong Interrogation of a Minor Point: The CriterionForum.org Story
I’ve enjoyed the latest episode. Thanks Tenia and Mr. Sausage! Until next time...

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Ad Astra (James Gray, 2019)

#102 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:31 pm

A rewatch fared much better with a bit of digestion. I still think it works best as an allegorical narrative functioning as real within the film as well as a physically-driven metaphor through space (in both a literal and figurative definition), but Pitt’s movement away from the comfort of his bearings towards the unknown, shedding security and defense mechanisms as he faces his own emotions and existential comprehension of his identity is a layered engagement that transforms the adventure story, the psychological character study, and the philosophical transcendental visual meditation style into one under the science fiction umbrella. The realism in attention to science, as other have mentioned, only highlights the practicality and logical securities that Pitt’s character implements to comprehend the world as well as the sobering intensity by which he moves through it. He feels every step of this painful and difficult journey as he loses traction in relying on his defining skills to untangle the intangible, which only intensifies his feeling of their brash effects as well as the discomfort of his emotional flooding through physical manifestations.

The physical in this film it utilized to extreme dual purposes: it resembles the only sense of concrete reality and security, but also the terrain one must travel to achieve growth, change, catharsis, to live one’s life. Things to overcome and things to respond to, thing to shape us, things we understand and things we don’t perhaps depending on context. The monkey scene is a perfect example of this displacement of the familiar in an unfamiliar circumstance which becomes jarring and is another physical variable to overcome. The tangible experience of being in a room with Ruth Negga and unpacking truths hidden away in a space that overloads our senses with light is disorienting, and Gray uses sound, music, and visual effects masterfully to elicit a complex experience between the deeply physical, realistic milieu and an emotional, existentially rattling one. It’s a wise choice not to have Pitt lose sight of the physical or expand his mind totally outside of its confines, for it’s always there as the focal point of his journey and the one grounding metric alongside which he can notice his change (of which his psychological tests, recording devices, etc are examples, just as much as his memory which acutely focuses on physical representations to draw significance). Of course this is how we interpret information but I think Gray’s attention to the physical blending with voiceover and abstract acknowledgement is one of the better depictions of the value of these signifiers by which we make meaning.

Karamazov
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Re: Ad Astra (James Gray, 2019)

#103 Post by Karamazov » Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:42 pm

One of the last great disappointments I've seen in theatres lately. Having a soft-spot for sci-fi, I was baffled by how such a promising film could turn out to be so mediocre.

Besides the less relevant scientific innacuracies (infiltration during launch, metal-sheet bodyboarding on Neptunian rings, propelled back to Earth by nuclear explosion) and its clear borrowings from other much better films (2001, Mission to Mars, Sunshine, Interstellar, Alien, Apocalypse Now, etc.), the film is unbelievably predictable and incapable of keeping the viewer in the dark, outrageously melodramatic and corny, inorganic in that it's shoddily written and assembled, poorly acted especially by Brad Pitt, suffering from embarassingly superficial pseudo-philosophical ramblings, and bearing intrusive, derivative and ubiquitous music (even though I love Max Richter) and uninspired cinematography thanks to the prevalent Brad Pitt's extreme close-ups (not disregarding Hoyte van Hoytema's creative chromatic experimentation throughout).

Just plain unremarkable modern filmmaking, attempting to be grandiose and failing miserably, unfortunately given the exciting premise.

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domino harvey
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Re: Ad Astra (James Gray, 2019)

#104 Post by domino harvey » Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:16 am

Karamazov wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:42 pm
its clear borrowings from other much better films (2001, Mission to Mars
Image

Karamazov
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Re: Ad Astra (James Gray, 2019)

#105 Post by Karamazov » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:04 am

domino harvey wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:16 am
Karamazov wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:42 pm
its clear borrowings from other much better films (2001, Mission to Mars
Image
Sure, Mission to Mars may be far from a masterpiece and is definitely not one of DePalma's best, but perhaps because I've seen it as a young man, the impression that I got then was far less disagreeable than the one I got from Ad Astra. Admittedly, my opinion today would be different if I rewatch it, but the point is that Ad Astra borrowed from it, among other films.

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Fiery Angel
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Re: Ad Astra (James Gray, 2019)

#106 Post by Fiery Angel » Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:48 am

Karamazov wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:42 pm
its clear borrowings from other much better films (2001, Mission to Mars
Armond, is that you?

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The Curious Sofa
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Re: Ad Astra (James Gray, 2019)

#107 Post by The Curious Sofa » Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:49 pm

Mission to Mars and Ad Astra are decent space films undone by a trite last act.

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TheKieslowskiHaze
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Re: Ad Astra (James Gray, 2019)

#108 Post by TheKieslowskiHaze » Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:27 pm

I liked Ad Astra a lot, but it feels like a movie that would have a better director's cut*, one with no narration and a longer run-time that lets things breathe a bit.

*James Gray, however, has said his first cut is not much different from the released version.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Ad Astra (James Gray, 2019)

#109 Post by therewillbeblus » Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:52 pm

Revisited this yet again and then listened to the James Gray commentary on the blu-ray, which is terrific and validated a lot of thoughts in this thread, including some of my own as well as reinforcing many of Mr. Sausage's terrific contributions (and generally those of us who saw the film as both allegory and literal, or mythic and authentic, simultaneously). He cites a Joseph Conrad quote at one point that professes that we can get to the broad through the specific, and really serves as the thesis of his approach to the film pertaining to unpacking humanity's identities through myths. Gray discusses his preoccupation with our cultural emotional suppression, and his explanation around the 40-minute mark on how in space sans distractions we are only left with our internal void (within an actual external void) is the highlight of his existential analysis of the commentary- as well as his psychological formulation on Pitt's character around the 75-minute mark (Gray sounds like the kind of guy I'd want to hang out with in real life). The scientific accuracy and projections, the way certain scenes and setpieces were pulled off, the great weight put on the choices in developing the score, gushing about Gravity's innovative choices, nuggets like Charlie Kaufman's contributions to the voiceover dialogue, Gray's Tommy Lee Jones impressions, and much more all make this a continuously engaging track.

Also, his view, and approach, to the concept of 'madness' is an admirable and humble examination of humanistic beliefs ("How can I say I'm better than Tommy Lee Jones?") - again, I love this guy. Highly recommended.

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diamonds
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Re: Ad Astra (James Gray, 2019)

#110 Post by diamonds » Sun Nov 06, 2022 3:45 pm

On the press tour for Armageddon Time Gray's been more candid about the compromises made on Ad Astra. The latest:
Q: James, you’ve been more open recently about the difficulties you had on Ad Astra. Why did they force these changes on you?

J.G.: It was a kind of a perfect storm. The birthing of it was so screwed up for reasons that had nothing to do with the movie. New Regency made the film, and they were trying to get it through Fox, and we were talking to Fox people, and then Fox got sold to Disney and folded up, basically. That was a proud studio at Twentieth Century Fox, and it’s gone. And then you have the Disney group, and that’s a very different M.O. So it was completely screwed up on a corporate level. Also, with a film that is quite personal, people sometimes see themselves in it and will argue that other things are better. I did not have final cut, so I could not say, “I don’t like it. That’s the way it is.”

Now, I was very upset about it because, as the writer-director, I felt that my view should win the day. And when people start coming up to you and saying, “Why’d you do all that stupid voice-over?” and you didn’t do it, that’s a very frustrating experience. But it’s not like I want people to hate the movie. The way I feel about it is — by the way, I’m not saying it’s as good — you hope it’s your own Blade Runner, where there are things in it that are clearly you that you love, and there are other things that were put into the film that aren’t you. There’s a lot I’m very proud of in the movie. But until then, I had been very lucky to have control over the films, and when the film stopped being a hundred percent mine, I became like a petulant little child.

[...]

Q: Is there any chance we might see a director’s cut of Ad Astra?

J.G.: I’m going to need help. It’s a lot of money to do it, probably about 300,000 bucks. The question really is this: Is there a way to monetize it? I would love to do it different. The director’s cut is 12 minutes shorter, by the way. When is the director’s cut shorter than the released version? But there is somehow more Ruth Negga and more Donald Sutherland in it. There are other things that are much shorter. But I’d love to do it.
Last edited by diamonds on Sun Nov 06, 2022 3:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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reaky
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Re: Ad Astra (James Gray, 2019)

#111 Post by reaky » Sun Nov 06, 2022 3:49 pm

I’m betting the space monkeys would get the chop.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Ad Astra (James Gray, 2019)

#112 Post by therewillbeblus » Sun Nov 06, 2022 9:56 pm

I dunno, I recall Gray being pretty enthusiastic about the monkeys bit in the commentary track, but I'd need to relisten to it

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lzx
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Re: Ad Astra (James Gray, 2019)

#113 Post by lzx » Sun Nov 06, 2022 10:24 pm

One thing I remember from the commentary is that he always wanted the film to end with Brad Pitt
SpoilerShow
landing on Earth, with the last shot being him being led out of the pod.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Ad Astra (James Gray, 2019)

#114 Post by therewillbeblus » Sun Nov 06, 2022 10:32 pm

Right- overall the commentary is very full of Gray complementing the scenes and choices made, so I wonder if it's more of an issue with voiceover/wishing stuff was trimmed than him detesting the inclusion of certain scenes. I doubt entire setpieces/narrative arcs like the monkeys were forced upon him, and that's not what it sounds like from the interviews, but the ending I can see

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The Narrator Returns
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Re: Ad Astra (James Gray, 2019)

#115 Post by The Narrator Returns » Sun Nov 06, 2022 10:37 pm

The monkeys and the lunar chase are often what people point to as alleged evidence of the studio interference, but I think that's based on a surface-level read of Gray not being an "action" director (We Own the Night has action scenes as outrageous and as good as the ones in Ad Astra and there's no evidence they were foisted on Gray against his will). But the very ending struck me even in the moment as being an obvious compromise, especially with how the lighting doesn't come close to matching how the rest of the movie looks. Gray's preferred ending is the kind of dialogue-free, thesis-summarizing final shot
SpoilerShow
having Pitt be redelivered from the womb after finally coming to terms with his father
that's become his trademark, and as Gray says in that Vulture interview, it's also what pissed off Harvey Weinstein so much about The Immigrant.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Ad Astra (James Gray, 2019)

#116 Post by therewillbeblus » Sun Nov 06, 2022 11:07 pm

Yeah and he’s certainly behind the lunar chase- he talks very passionately and in depth about getting the science right for it. I’d be really interested in seeing a version without the voiceover though

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