1054 Parasite

Discuss DVDs and Blu-rays released by Criterion and the films on them. If it's got a spine number, it's in here. Threads may contain spoilers.
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mfunk9786
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Re: Parasite (Bong Joon-ho, 2019)

#126 Post by mfunk9786 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:54 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:17 pm
Why the hell would you remake one of the few foreign films of recent years to have genuine carryover appeal and success with non-foreign film viewers?
More money?

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Re: Parasite (Bong Joon-ho, 2019)

#127 Post by Michael Kerpan » Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:28 pm

I have a bad feeling about this...


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Re: Parasite (Bong Joon-ho, 2019)

#129 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:16 pm

Hearing him describe it, this actually sounds like it could be interesting in detailing some missing links that felt underdeveloped in the film. It could also be wildly unnecessary depending on how it’s narratively put together. Anyways, the most hair raising part of all of this is that he’s comparing himself to Bergman, though I guess if I was receiving so many hyperbolic accolades it would be pretty hard not to feel like the second coming

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Re: Parasite (Bong Joon-ho, 2019)

#130 Post by Glowingwabbit » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:19 pm

Also Bergman wasn't remaking a film into a TV miniseries, but editing down a series for theatrical.

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Re: Parasite (Bong Joon-ho, 2019)

#131 Post by Mr Sausage » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:32 pm

therewillbeblus wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:16 pm
Hearing him describe it, this actually sounds like it could be interesting in detailing some missing links that felt underdeveloped in the film. It could also be wildly unnecessary depending on how it’s narratively put together. Anyways, the most hair raising part of all of this is that he’s comparing himself to Bergman, though I guess if I was receiving so many hyperbolic accolades it would be pretty hard not to feel like the second coming
I don't think he's comparing himself to Bergman. It's just an example to explain how he conceptualizes the differences between the two versions, I think.

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Re: Parasite (Bong Joon-ho, 2019)

#132 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:39 pm

Yeah I guess I didn’t see how it was similar re: Glowingwabbit’s response, but my comment was in jest. I don’t think his statement makes him out to me an egomaniac or anything, even if I raised an eyebrow the statement is unfair if taken at face value

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Re: Parasite (Bong Joon-ho, 2019)

#133 Post by Mr Sausage » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:59 pm

I'd guess what he means is he had to edit down his ideas to make a two hour film, and now he gets to make a much more detailed version, somewhat similar to how Bergman edited down his miniseries to fit the theatrical format. It's not a 1:1 comparison, but you can see what he means.

I guess a better comparison is Michael Mann expanding his tv movie, L.A. Takedown, into Heat by including all the elements he had to cut out to meet the stricter demands of the tv format.

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Re: Parasite (Bong Joon-ho, 2019)

#134 Post by Nasir007 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:34 am

I for one do not like a 6 hour episodic idea for Parasite. It destroys what is good about the movie. The movie is like a play. It is best consumed in a single sitting as a taut suspenseful drama unfolding in a very short amount of time. It is so potent, so stirring and so involving because it honors the 3 unities of classical great theater - unity of time, unity of place and unity of action.

The central drama in the film takes place over a period of 12 hours, in essentially a single house and there are no subplots so to say so it is all very tight and focused and dramatic.

This beautiful structure would be destroyed if you make it episodic and stretch it out. Parasite is a crowd pleaser because of the unbelievable amount of tension it builds.

I will be open-minded but I can't see it comparing favorably to the movie. The movie is a stone cold masterpiece. Anything less might feel a letdown.

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Re: Parasite (Bong Joon-ho, 2019)

#135 Post by Red Screamer » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:48 am

Nasir007 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:34 am
it honors the 3 unities of classical great theater - unity of time, unity of place and unity of action.

The central drama in the film takes place over a period of 12 hours, in essentially a single house and there are no subplots
This isn't even remotely true.

I, for one, found the film well-made but ultimately unsatisfying and superficial with some scenes that didn't work for me at all (the birthday party scene which is, IIRC, straight out of that terrible Bryce Dallas Howard episode of Black Mirror). So I think this has potential. I'm wondering if Bong is going to direct and if "expanded" means he's adding footage to the original film or if he's redoing the whole thing with different actors and so on.

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Re: Parasite (Bong Joon-ho, 2019)

#136 Post by Aunt Peg » Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:13 am

I'm only interested in seeing an extended TV version/re-make if Bong uses the same cast.

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Re: Parasite (Bong Joon-ho, 2019)

#137 Post by colinr0380 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:00 am

Mr Sausage wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:59 pm
I guess a better comparison is Michael Mann expanding his tv movie, L.A. Takedown, into Heat by including all the elements he had to cut out to meet the stricter demands of the tv format.
I always got the impression that it was the difficulty getting Heat into production as a theatrical feature that led to making L.A. Takedown as a TV movie as a kind of 'proof of concept' first?

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Re: Parasite (Bong Joon-ho, 2019)

#138 Post by feihong » Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:07 am

On the Blank Check podcast they say that L.A. Takedown was intended as a pilot for a TV series, and that the network wanted Mann to change the lead actor out for the series, and that Mann refused.

It makes a certain amount of sense that Heat is a film emerging out of a TV series pilot. Lots of characters just sort of drift in and out of the action. Characters like Lauren Gustafson (Justine Hanna's daughter) seem designed to be characters that figure larger in later episodes. But I don't know where the Blank Check guys sourced that info from.

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Re: Parasite (Bong Joon-ho, 2019)

#139 Post by Mr Sausage » Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:26 am

Red Screamer wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:48 am
Nasir007 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:34 am
it honors the 3 unities of classical great theater - unity of time, unity of place and unity of action.

The central drama in the film takes place over a period of 12 hours, in essentially a single house and there are no subplots
This isn't even remotely true.
Right? It doesn't observe the classical unities at all. There's, like, one act that observes two of them at most. What a bizarre statement. Plus, I like Aristotle and all, but his concept here hasn't been in style for hundreds of years even in the theatre, let alone film.

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Re: Parasite (Bong Joon-ho, 2019)

#140 Post by aox » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:12 am


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Re: Parasite (Bong Joon-ho, 2019)

#141 Post by Nasir007 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:36 am

Red Screamer wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:48 am
Nasir007 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:34 am
it honors the 3 unities of classical great theater - unity of time, unity of place and unity of action.

The central drama in the film takes place over a period of 12 hours, in essentially a single house and there are no subplots
This isn't even remotely true.

I, for one, found the film well-made but ultimately unsatisfying and superficial with some scenes that didn't work for me at all (the birthday party scene which is, IIRC, straight out of that terrible Bryce Dallas Howard episode of Black Mirror). So I think this has potential. I'm wondering if Bong is going to direct and if "expanded" means he's adding footage to the original film or if he's redoing the whole thing with different actors and so on.
What isn't true?

After the long setup, the main events transpire in 1 night and the next day in largely the Park's house.

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Re: Parasite (Bong Joon-ho, 2019)

#142 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:03 am

I believe Sausage already explained. They are referring to your "3 unities" statement, though to be fair there are plenty of subplots hinted at (i.e. the previous helper's story) that Bong says in the article he wanted to expand upon more. Also, the "long setup" is like half the movie... that's like me saying that Vox Lux is like a play and not episodic, "taut suspenseful drama unfolding in a very short amount of time," when only the second half functions as this and the first half relies completely on episodic non-play like development. I struggle to see how the TV version will necessarily lose that power especially if they hold it to a 1:1 ratio like the film did.

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Re: Parasite (Bong Joon-ho, 2019)

#143 Post by Mr Sausage » Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:46 pm

Not to mention the part of the movie confined to the house over that one night would presumably work just as well as a self-contained 60-90 television episode. His post makes no sense.

Also, who gives a shit about the three unities? An arbitrary aesthetic category that most every dramatic medium has proven it doesn't need, movies especially so.

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Re: Parasite (Bong Joon-ho, 2019)

#144 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:19 pm

Right, and considering the amount of movements since the 1500s, if the idea of art is to break the mold and transform it to create.. well creative works, then it should be repeatedly challenged and altered. I mean we're in post-post modernism right now for crying out loud (unless I didn't get the memo on the next movement)

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Re: Parasite (Bong Joon-ho, 2019)

#145 Post by Michael Kerpan » Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:12 pm

Even Euripides never followed the rules formulated by Aristotle. ;-)

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Re: Parasite (Bong Joon-ho, 2019)

#146 Post by HinkyDinkyTruesmith » Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:14 pm

I feel like the key argument against Parasite as a work of the three unities (which are not Aristotle's, who only actually argues for the unity of action, and a general compression of time, and for tragedy only as opposed to epics; nor are they rules, insomuch as observations of the great tragedies that he was familiar with) is that the work itself is dependent on a disunity of place. One of the most important (if obvious) metaphors of the work is the dissonance between where the rich and the poor live, as exemplified by the long journey down, down, down into the sewers of society in the rain.

(Also, I always felt the scene calls to mind Force of Evil's denouement, as well as Nights of Cabiria's episode where Cabiria follows the charitable man passing out food and supplies to the impoverished cavedwellers, who live in large crater-caves in the ground.)

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Re: Parasite (Bong Joon-ho, 2019)

#147 Post by swo17 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:22 pm

Michael Kerpan wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:12 pm
Even Euripides never followed the rules formulated by Aristotle. ;-)
Bong Joon-ho is no Euripides

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Re: Parasite (Bong Joon-ho, 2019)

#148 Post by Nasir007 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:45 pm

HinkyDinkyTruesmith wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:14 pm
I feel like the key argument against Parasite as a work of the three unities (which are not Aristotle's, who only actually argues for the unity of action, and a general compression of time, and for tragedy only as opposed to epics; nor are they rules, insomuch as observations of the great tragedies that he was familiar with) is that the work itself is dependent on a disunity of place. One of the most important (if obvious) metaphors of the work is the dissonance between where the rich and the poor live, as exemplified by the long journey down, down, down into the sewers of society in the rain.
Of course. A strict conception of the concept is rarely found. It takes a very particular kind of construction to achieve that with some amount of success. But in Parasite, the spatial and temporal compression is achieved to a significant degree. And as has been noted, Parasite originated as a play and Bong Jong Ho specifically mentioned the limitation of space to two houses before.

I had this same reading of the film when I saw it months ago.

It is incidentally the second Palme winner which has partially invoked the "three unities" construction of drama. The other is Amour by Haneke where he said he was striving for it.

The constraints make it difficult to achieve but it can still serve as a guiding template for achieving dramatic intensity and concentration. You see the adoption of one of the unities even in the mainstream cinema of the day. I have noticed in recent times like blockbusters like The Last Jedi and Infinity War - in large part - seem to occur in very compressed time frames.

I think the compression of space is the most difficult and perhaps the greatest success of Parasite. Within a single location, you have the rich and the poor, their relationships defined and established and the drama of their resentments play out and secrets revealed and what not. I found it most compelling.

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Re: Parasite (Bong Joon-ho, 2019)

#149 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:54 pm

Nasir007 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:45 pm
It is incidentally the second Palme winner which has partially invoked the "three unities" construction of drama. The other is Amour by Haneke where he said he was striving for it.
Even just since the new millennium, would 4 Months, 3 Weeks, and 2 Days or Elephant not count as 'wholly' invoking these unities? And couldn't one say that pretty much every Palme winner has "partially" invoked them?

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Re: Parasite (Bong Joon-ho, 2019)

#150 Post by soundchaser » Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:56 pm

(Every story ever made partially invokes the three unities in that they are limited to the scope of themselves in time, place, and action.)

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