World of Wong Kar Wai

Discuss DVDs and Blu-rays released by Criterion and the films on them. If it's got a spine number, it's in here. Threads may contain spoilers.
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senseabove
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:07 am

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#251 Post by senseabove » Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:37 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:21 pm
I should have made this much of a fuss when PT Anderson made some tweaks to There Will Be Blood for home video, namely adding the title card to the beginning of the film...
I don't think I've ever seen that confirmed before, and it's bugged me for years, so thank you! I remember thinking at the time that the title card only showing up at the end was an excellent, pointed touch, and then it wasn't anymore on DVD and I just assumed I had completely imagined it.

Though, on the contrary, twbb, I'd argue that it's an even more foreboding, ominous message to the audience at the end...

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mfunk9786
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Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#252 Post by mfunk9786 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:48 pm

senseabove wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:37 pm
mfunk9786 wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:21 pm
I should have made this much of a fuss when PT Anderson made some tweaks to There Will Be Blood for home video, namely adding the title card to the beginning of the film...
I don't think I've ever seen that confirmed before, and it's bugged me for years, so thank you! I remember thinking at the time that the title card only showing up at the end was an excellent, pointed touch, and then it wasn't anymore on DVD and I just assumed I had completely imagined it.
Only confirmed insofar as I'm telling you it's true, so if the Mandela Effect is working overtime, apologies. But I am almost certain on both.

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therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#253 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:56 pm

senseabove wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:37 pm
Though, on the contrary, twbb, I'd argue that it's an even more foreboding, ominous message to the audience at the end...
Sorry that's what I meant, that just having it pop up at the end gives more chills. We all know what the title of the movie is, so by withholding it from us, the tension builds until we're knocked over the head with it for the first time, rather than as a second bookend.

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PfR73
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Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#254 Post by PfR73 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:07 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:21 pm
I should have made this much of a fuss when PT Anderson made some tweaks to There Will Be Blood for home video, namely adding the title card to the beginning of the film and adding a poorly dubbed coda to "you owe the church of the third revelation... five thousand dollars... as part of the agreement that we made!!" during the scene where Daniel drags Eli into the oil puddle and threatens to bury him alive. Both of these things still bug me to this day merely because I saw the film in the theater so many times. Then again, the first time I saw it in the theater the penultimate reel was initially projected upside down, so. All changes are not bad changes, in other words.
This discussion has come up before. I saw There Will Be Blood at a midnight screening about 3 days before the general release. There was absolutely a title card at the beginning of the film. The title card appeared three times: the beginning of the film, the beginning of the end credits, and the end of the end credits. I know for sure, I turned to my friend as the lights came up and said "the title so nice they showed it thrice."

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mfunk9786
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Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#255 Post by mfunk9786 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:15 pm

It potentially varied from theater to theater, then - none that I saw in New York or Philadelphia had a title card.

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Drucker
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Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#256 Post by Drucker » Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:18 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:15 pm
It potentially varied from theater to theater, then - none that I saw in New York or Philadelphia had a title card.
They should release TWBB with three different editions, one for each amount of title cards shown.

hanshotfirst1138
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#257 Post by hanshotfirst1138 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:48 pm

cowboydan wrote:
artfilmfan wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:55 pm
I was going to skip this box set because I did not want to spend all that money for the only title that I really want which is Days of Being Wild (on Blu ray). Seeing that Chungking Express and In the Mood for Love will be in 1.66:1 aspect ratio gives me second thought. I would love to have these two titles on Blu ray with this aspect ratio.
The standalone releases of both of those films are already in 1.66:1. Of course Chungking Express is OOP though. I think by now, most people who have seen Chungking Ex. and ItMFL have seen them in 1.66:1, on the Criterion Channel and Criterion releases. The 1.85:1 and 1.78:1 versions are maybe half of the older bluray and DVD releases from various regions. The only US release not in 1.66:1 is the Rolling Thunder (Quentin Tarantino Presents) Chungking Express DVD which is in 1.85:1. (I can't comment on any VHS or Laserdisc releases)
I’d rather spend the extra cash and track down an OOP release that presents the film the way I prefer; I’m getting very, very wary of director “approval” in the age of Lucas, Cameron, Mann, Walter Hill and now this nonsense.


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smccolgan
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:12 pm

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#258 Post by smccolgan » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:15 pm

Don't know about anyone else, but I'm looking forward to finding out what's actually in the box so we actually have something to get into a furor over. Until then, continue to tilt at windmills.

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Grand Wazoo
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:23 pm

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#259 Post by Grand Wazoo » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:20 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:15 pm
It potentially varied from theater to theater, then - none that I saw in New York or Philadelphia had a title card.
I saw it multiple times in NYC and NJ, including the first showing in the morning on release day at the Lincoln Square AMC, and I am 100% certain it had the title at all of those viewings as I distinctly remember focusing on the rhythm of the low ambiance, the title card with its ominous font popping and out, then the screeching strings over the shot of the hills.

But back to Wong, I just snagged the AE blu of Fallen Angels just in case while it's cheap enough, though I genuinely hope it turns out to have been a frivolous purchase.

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Drucker
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Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#260 Post by Drucker » Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:04 pm

Where'd you buy it? I placed an Amazon order that hasn't yet dispatched.

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Grand Wazoo
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Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#261 Post by Grand Wazoo » Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:37 pm

Drucker wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:04 pm
Where'd you buy it? I placed an Amazon order that hasn't yet dispatched.
Amazon UK. Mine dispatched, but it looks like no more are up for sale now.

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Luke M
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:21 pm

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#262 Post by Luke M » Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:16 pm

Just checked my Fallen Angels order and it's stuck in the dreaded "delivery date pending" status. So welp.

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Murdoch
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Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#263 Post by Murdoch » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:04 pm

soundchaser wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:37 pm
I know there are far bigger concerns here, but that colored-in jukebox is goofy as hell.
I absolutely hate it. What a weird and obnoxious addition.

I didn't realize that the Kino blu of Fallen Angels was OOP but I'm glad I picked it up when I did.

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Boosmahn
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Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#264 Post by Boosmahn » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:21 pm

In the Mood for Love Criterion Blu-ray (screencaps are from this site!) and restoration comparison:
SpoilerShow
Original
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Restoration
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Original
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Restoration
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Apologies if this has been posted before.

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hearthesilence
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 am
Location: NYC

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#265 Post by hearthesilence » Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:00 pm

Boosmahn wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:21 pm
In the Mood for Love Criterion Blu-ray (screencaps are from this site!) and restoration comparison:
In WKW's defense, the color of those particular shots don't look bad at all in the restoration, aesthetically speaking. But it is very different.

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Luke M
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:21 pm

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#266 Post by Luke M » Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:42 pm

Somehow less red and less blue. I think it looks fine.

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Ivy Mike
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:22 am

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#267 Post by Ivy Mike » Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:58 am

cowboydan wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:45 pm
I just noticed a couple things.

I know that they're just trailers, but the audio on the new Thai trailer sounds different. Specifically, ~20 second mark when he starts shooting, it sounds like very modern Hollywood gunfight audio that utilizes panning. But on the Accent Films trailer it sounds very 90's, thinner, and with less/no panning. Is this an example of the difference between the 5.1 track and the 2.0 (original?) track, or is it possibly temp audio for the trailer?? I think I've only watched it with the 5.1 (on the Korean BD), and now I want to get the AE because it has both audio tracks in addition to being on a BD-50 instead of a BD-25 and having a superior bitrate.

I also just now realized that there are different cuts of this film. According to blu-ray.com and imdb: the Korean BD is 96 min. which would suggest it being (what imdb lists as) the German cut or the French cut. The AE BD is 99 min. which seems to be the longest. The HK is 97 min. Does anybody know what is cut out in the 96 and 97 minute cuts?? Also, it appears that the new 4k restored version is of the 99 minute cut.

edit: Maybe nothing is "cut out"? I just noticed in the trailer that some alternative takes were used. In the very first shot when the woman is putting the coin the jukebox, the angle of the camera is completely different and some things are in focus in one trailer but not the other. You could speculate that this due to the restoration but I don't think it is. A better piece of evidence is at 1:52 when Blonde hops up and peeks over the counter. It's brief but it's very clearly a different take in either trailer. So if they chose different takes for more shots/scenes, then potentially that could lead to a slightly different running time. But if anyone knows of any footage that is cut in some versions, I would love to know.
Yeah I believe the Thai trailer features the remixed audio that was introduced back when the 5.1 was made (used for the previous Blu-rays and some of the DVDs), though I'm not familiar enough with the film to recognize if even further changes have occurred with the latest round of remastering for this retrospective and eventual boxset. WKW's memo indicated remixing on at least some of the films, so certainly possible there are all sorts of audio changes across the board.

I asked over on the blu-ray.com forums whether anyone has the Artificial Eye BD release and can confirm if it's actually the original mix in 2.0 form on that disc, or if that's just folded down from the 5.1. If imdb is correct regarding the film (I don't have any reason to doubt it), the original mix should be mono, so it is possible for the 2.0 track to be 2.0 mono.

As far as audio, those two different trailers do offer an indication of mono versus stereo content. Although the trailer could differ from what the actual film mix is, it seems a good chance here that they are indicative of the differences and that the original mono mix was not just mono in configuration but also had completely different effects, at least for the gunshots (additionally, some scenes from the film posted on youtube also have the newer sounding gunshots, and visually appear to be from the hd/blu era).

Rupert Pupkin
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:34 am

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#268 Post by Rupert Pupkin » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:27 am

I have the KINO US "Fallen Angels" Blu-Ray. I think that Artificial Eye came later but it's the same master.
I remember that "Fallen Angels" was a significant blu-ray upgrade in comparison to the DVD US box set WKW I had.
There is a few black & white shots in the US KINO Blu-Ray (but not during all the restaurant "battle" scene; it's in color too).
I'm kind of disoriented by the change of ratio to scope, since I've always seen "Fallen Angels" has a companion to "Chunking Express" (I think that for WKW and Christopher Doyle it was a bit like when JL Godard made "Made In USA" while shooting "Deux ou trois choses que je sais d'elle")

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Boosmahn
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Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#269 Post by Boosmahn » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:22 pm

Here are a few more comparisons:

Chungking Express:
SpoilerShow
Criterion Blu-ray
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Restoration
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Happy Together:
SpoilerShow
Blu-ray (probably the Kino)
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Restoration
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Blu-ray (probably the Kino)
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Restoration
Image
Obviously, the best comparisons will be when this set is actually released, but hopefully, this gives an idea of the changes.

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yoloswegmaster
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:57 pm

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#270 Post by yoloswegmaster » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:35 pm

You can also view it right now since TIFF is holding digital screenings for the retrospective. You can rent it for 2 days (or for 1 day if you hit play on it).

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hearthesilence
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 am
Location: NYC

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#271 Post by hearthesilence » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:44 pm

I'm tempted to say it generally looks like they're trying to add less color, but I have no idea if the tinting seen in the old BD was originally done in-camera or in post.

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Amazing Goose
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Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#272 Post by Amazing Goose » Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:30 pm

How likely is it that the lineup that's playing at TIFF is what will be included in the box set: As Tears Go By, Chungking Express, Days of Being Wild, Fallen Angels, Happy Together, In the Mood For Love, and The Hand?
Even the program's name--World of Wong Kar-Wai--seems pretty plausible for the title of the set.

I'll be honest, as someone who has been wringing my hands over selling my Chungking Express blu at the start of the year in anticipation for this set, I'm feeling a little less concerned about it. Given the choice, I probably would have preferred the original color grade, but the new CE look isn't bad, just different. The removal of the red from In the Mood For Love is slightly more discouraging (I'm looking to pickup the current blu-ray release), but I wonder how much of the attachment to that look is because it's what we saw first? If the before and after looks were switched, how many people would complaining about this "cliched and overdone red tint"?

I haven't seen Fallen Angels, and the clips I have seen look awesome, so the more invasive changes there are discouraging but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot we can do other than commiserate here and hope against hope that the box includes both versions.

artfilmfan
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:11 pm

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#273 Post by artfilmfan » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:52 pm

I revisited Days of Being Wild today, after not having seen it for about ten years. I thought the film has held up well over time. I have two versions of the Megastar DVDs. One is the version that DVDBeaver reviewed. The second version is from their Golden Collection series and it has a much cleaner image. However, it looks darker than the first. The image on this second DVD looks very similar to their Blu-ray that was also reviewed by DVDBeaver. I have preferred the brighter image of their first DVD as some of the scenes on the second DVD looks too dark. It would be interesting to see what the new restoration looks like on the upcoming Criterion release.

cowboydan
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:27 pm

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#274 Post by cowboydan » Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:57 pm

You can watch the new restoration for $12 here (and any of the director's other films)
https://virtual.filmlinc.org/page/world ... g-kar-wai/

cowboydan
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:27 pm

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#275 Post by cowboydan » Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:19 am

I hope this giant post about Fallen Angels is acceptable.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

Here's a google drive link to a folder with 159 screenshots. They're not all in chronological order, but some are. To be fair I chose both: shots that work decently well, and shots that showcase majors issues such as distortion, bad framing, revisionist colors, etc.

Below in the spoiler tag are 15 examples of what I would consider funny looking faces or objects due to the outer edge distortion they utilized (in some of the shots to achieve the aspect ratio conversion) [of course they used wide angle lenses at close range, so things already looked distorted in the original, but this brings it even further. Too far IMO]
SpoilerShow
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Here are some direct comparisons to the original version The resolution of the restoration shots should not be taken as accurate. They were taken from an online stream that compresses them heavily, even on 1080p mode, similar to youtube. So it would unfair to assume DNR until we see it in disc format

1.

Original
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Restoration stream (cropped out part of the cigarette and hand)
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2.

Original BD
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Restoration stream (We can see the highlights are desaturated, and the image is stretched)
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3.

Original BD
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Restoration stream (green tint seemingly added)
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4.

Original BD
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Restoration stream (TV is colorized, image is cropped and stretched)
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5.

Original BD
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Restoration stream
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6.

Original BD
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Restoration stream (the outer edges are very distorted. Flip back and forth between this and the original and look at the 2 girls at the table on the far left. They become completely skewed.)
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7.

Original BD
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Restoration stream
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8.

Original BD
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Restoration stream (color grading is noticeably different)
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9.

Original BD
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Restoration stream
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10.

Original BD
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Restoration stream
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11.

Original BD
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Restoration stream (White isn't white here... Just like in the new In the Mood For Love color grade :/
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12.

Original BD
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Restoration stream
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13.

Original BD
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Restoration stream
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14.

Original BD
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Restoration stream (I didn't grab the exact frame of this before my rental expired. But you can see how they changed this scene to B&W)
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15. Same scene

Original BD
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Restoration stream
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Last edited by cowboydan on Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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